To Think that Disability Shouldn't be a Trump Card

[MissAustenMadeAQuilt]

Don't know how to link but the case is easy to find.

Martin Madden worked for the Met Police as a civilian worker.

He made many crude, lewd and sexual remarks to women co-workers and eventually he was sacked for this.

He has gone to a tribunal. As he was diagnosed with ADHD in 2022, the judge found that he was disabled and was not aware that his actions were inappropriate.

He will now be compensated.

This, and the recent Tourettes case where a racial slur was excused because of disability, makes me wonder if ADHD and Tourettes will now be a "Get Out of Jail Free" card and it is PoC and Women who will suffer the consequences.

I do have a skin in the game. I am woman and have a mixed race child.

AIBU?

My goodness. Do you think someone with Tourettes can control their tics?

YANBU OP, I think the same. People on twitter were saying a couple of weeks back 'just watch, now we will have an increase in people saying the n word and claiming they have Tourettes, in order to get away with it'. This was inevitable, we all could see this coming.

Im female and disabled -I certainly don't use it as a trump card in daily life

Thank you for your last remark.

The school dealt with it very well. I have no complaints there.

Of course, the boys did not have a Tourette's diagnosis but one of the mums approached me to apologise personally-which I appreciated-but told me that she would be seeking a Tourette's diagnosis for her boy-which I did not appreciate.

In any event, my child was terribly upset and, even if every one of those boys had a diagnosis for Tourettes-not one does- I would not forgive the tears and humiliation that they caused my child who was simply minding his own business and who had to endure this because of the colour of his beautiful precious skin.

Those boys knew what they were doing. They had seen Tourette's used as an excuse and decided to take full advantage of it-a little like those people on the Saturday show.

And now a 44 year old man makes disgusting lewd remarks to a woman and he too should be excused because of ADHD.

Mark my words, it won't be long before it is offered as a defence in a sexual assault trial or at least asked for it to be taken into account when sentencing.

I am appalled but I see I am in the minority and so won't argue the toss any more.

The difference is John actually does have Tourettes.

I am appalled but I see I am in the minority and so won't argue the toss any more.

To be fair, you had quite a few posts deleted on the BAFTA thread.

So it might be more about how you argue the toss on MN rather than not arguing at all.

You can claim anything you want but if you dont have it ,you dont have it and it cant be used as an excuse

It was the BBC that hung John out to dry by broadcasting one of his tics. Apparently he made other comments that night that weren't shown and he's had a lot of online hate over the issue

You can't compare ADHD with Tourettes

Lewis Capaldi has Tourettes too -did you see him on stage in Glastonbury where he literally couldn't sing -do we all start lumping people with Tourettes as potential racists because of that one comment

Not all people with ADHD and Tourettes are the same. Or people with disabilities full stop.

Wow. I would give anything to have my pre disabled life back.

There is some ill informed twaddle on this thread. A diagnosis of Tourette’s is a life sentence of being unable to control everything you say and do. It literally means that you can do and say inappropriate things and YOU CANNOT STOP YOURSELF. It is not an “excuse” and this who try to use it as such are ableist twats. In fact they are just twats full stop. But saying stupid things like “oh yes now everyone will use Tourette’s as an excuse” is minimising this very real and devastating neurological condition. Would you expect someone who has another neurological condition that affects
their ability to talk or walk just to “control” it? People with Tourette’s do not chose what their tics are. This is not posssible. The problem is that many tics are “contextual” so they sound like they are said with meaning. They are not. If I tell
my son to do something that he doesn’t want to do at a particular moment, he will often tell me to go and die or kill myself. He does not mean this. He has Tourette’s. I would suggest that anyone who is not familiar with the condition visit the excellent website of Tourette’s Action (the main charity that supposedly those with Tourette’s and offers excellent information on the condition)

Was the issue that John was sat by a microphone?
I don’t necessarily agree with not airing things, because I think it’s right that the people who had to hear the slur have their truth of the experience documented.
I wonder what the solution is? People have the right not to experience verbal abuse but people also have the right to not be excluded due to their disability.

Yes, a lot of black mumsnetters had their posts deleted on that thread. I'm not black but my DC are mixed race.

It was pretty shocking actually.

OP do you feel that it shouldn’t have been aired?

Yes

Only if you have a chip on your shoulder.

Adhd and Tourettes are completely different. of course someone with ADHD should be help accountable for their actions. Tourettes is involuntary.

OP what do you think the man with Tourette's at the BAFTAs should have done differently? Should he have stayed at home? Do you think he's racist?

I wondered if it was air so as not to sweep it under the rug so to speak?
I haven’t watched it but the whole scenario seems terribly thought out for all parties involved.

"Those boys knew what they were doing. They had seen Tourette's used as an excuse and decided to take full advantage of it-a little like those people on the Saturday show."

But John Davidson does have Tourette's. He wasn't using it as an excuse and taking advantage - he literally does have the condition, and it is the literal reason for what happened.

A person pretending to have Tourette's and shouting racist abuse is being both racist and ableist, and their actions hurt people of colour and people with disabilities. Such pretending contributes to the stigma faced by people with Tourette's - as this thread proves, because it has caused you to lash out against people with disabilities, even though they aren't the ones who harmed your son. Your son was harmed by a vile racist, not by a person with Tourette's. Your anger should be directed at the true perpetrators.

Perhaps if the employer hadn’t completely fucked up the disciplinary process it wouldn’t have got to tribunal?

You are being completely unreasonable comparing a case where someone used ADHD as an excuse, and a Tourettes tic that was genuinely uncontrollably.
Leave the poor man alone ffs.

Why is this only about people of colour and women? Everyone has the right to work and live in peace.

Also, educate yourself on Tourette’s please.

Then annoy yourself by dwelling on it bye bye

Yes I agree.

The ableism was also pretty shocking.

All in all not a great thread and so many racist and ableist posters showing themselves up for what they are.

You need to remember, this case was not the claimant versus the women he sexually harassed with an ET finding he was in the right because of his disability.
The case was the claimant with the disability against an employer he felt didn't deal with him fairly and correctly.
This judgement in no way sides with him against the women. All it says is that the employer didn't handle their issue with a staff member with a disability as they should have. Mostly due to a failure to follow procedures.
YANBU to argue that a disability does not trump women's rights not to be sexually harassed. YABU because this is not what the judgement found.