To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

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Well it’s not really a debate, is it? You either don’t care, or you’re absolutely seething because your meat may or may not be halal. But irrespectively of what you think about this, AIBU to think that people ‘outing’ businesses on social media about what meat they use and encouraging hundreds of people to smear them not just in posts but reviews to tank their ratings is just crazy?

Hundreds of people commenting ‘I’ve just left them a bad review on google’ because a (British owned baked potato) business extended their trading hours to their Muslim customers? People who have never bought anything from them in their life, probably geographically will never go there. Actively trying to sabotage a business because you think you’re what - some sort of activist?

And don’t get me started on the posts where people reach out to these poor customer service reps in supermarkets to ask them if the meat they sell is halal because of this mad narrative that ‘80% of supermarket meat is halal’ - where has this nonsense come from?!?! 😂 People screenshotting and commenting about how ‘Clare from Lidl’ is avoiding the question when she probably doesn’t have a scooby and the answer probably isn’t a straight yes or no either!

Madness. Utter madness. People treating this like it’s a full time job.

SpudBros have a keen eye for PR and the number of people breaking their fast on the flag market in Preston is small. The number of people lining their stomachs to continue drinking is much, much larger.
Two things can be true at once: it’s nice thing to offer dates and water during Ramadan and a continuation of their cynical self promotion. They certainly know their online audience of edgelord racists (ahh, the joys of a Reform council!) would make a huge deal about this and do most of the work for them in spreading the word that you can get an overpriced potato at 11pm in Preston.

Where does it say that?

It’s a reversible stun not irreversible as British standard. This is so the animal is conscious enough to hear the prayer. So it’s not as ‘pain free’ as British standards.

No. Its because halal meat is not required to be stunned.

Every animal slaughtered (outside of those under religious exemption) is required to be stunned in the UK.

So the debate is around religiously slaughtered animals compared to other animals.

I haven’t seen any of this but food labelling generally goes for clarity of information as a good thing, extend the labelling and people who want halal meat can buy it.

I am curious. Do have welfare concerns about the rest of the meat production system? Or is it just the method of slaughter that bothers you?

Stunning is not an optional extra under our law for non-religious meat, due to animal welfare concerns

The UK government doesn't have a legal requirement to ensure all animals are stunned before slaughter.

Around 88% of animals slaughtered in the UK for Halal are stunned first.

All animals slaughtered under the Shechita (for Kosher) are non-stunned.

I would agree with this. It's also disconcerting to have the "but - kosher!" put in for the extra layer of prejudice.

This is incorrect. The animal is not conscious, the requirement is for it to be a reversible stun rather than irreversible which means the animal has to be able to regain consciousness, not that it's semi-conscious. They therefore use electrical stun (which is also allowed for non-religious slaughter) rather than eg captive bolt gun or gas.

I stopped eating meat due to animal welfare concerns, both slaughter and animal husbandry. I now don't eat it as I don't want an animal that wants to live to be killed for my food.

I don't think there should be any exemption to the existing animal welfare laws we have. That makes a mockery of them.

It is a legal requirement for animals to be stunned before slaughter in the UK

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slaughter/religiousslaughter#:~:text=Current%20UK%20law%20requires%20animals,to%20stun%20animals%20before%20slaughter.

This ⬆️. Where I live, it's very clear what meat is halal, it always seems to be labelled, as do restaurants and takeaways which serve it. It's easy to avoid.
We have a very small Jewish community, so there isn't the same amount/availability of kosher meat.
Either way, it's surely easy to check labels?

I disagree, given the vast majority of halal meet is stunned before slaughter.

If the question is about consumer choice and clarity in labelling, the correct response would be to label meat as stunned before slaughter/not pre-stunned, which would give consumers accurate information.

Labelling as halal/non-halal does not provide the same clarity.

Really ? I didn’t even realise a prayer was said tbh. My understanding was always that it was the method of slaughter.

The animal must be able to regain consciousness and life as opposed to the British standard. So I’m not ‘incorrect’ it’s about interpretation. I’d say a lot of brits are being led up the garden path when they think both stun options are the same.

About 90% of halal meat eaten in the UK is stunned. It becomes halal because they play a soundtrack of an imam reading a blessing during the slaughter process. If you eat ready meals or pre prepared meat products, you have probably eaten it without knowing. For regular meat eaters there should be no additional welfare concerns.

Around 6% of UK abattoirs have a special exemption licence for non stun slaughter. It is more heavily regulated and it only covers the slaughter of sheep. Other non stun halal meat such as chicken is usually imported. It is normally more expensive and sought after, so it is unlikely to be getting into the general meat supply.

It is a shame that some people only care about where their food comes from and the welfare of the animals they eat in this context.

Some meat with terrible welfare standards is being imported because UK border checks are inadequate. Pre Brexit there was a good system which Brexit dismantled.

If some of you paid more attention to policing the goods coming in rather than people, and asked more questions about where your meat comes from, perhaps British farmers would not be struggling so much to make a fair living.

Well I am clearly not going to agree with that, as I want it to be illegal to slaughter any animal without it being stunned first. Therefore labelling is irrelevant.

I meant you're incorrect that they're semi-conscious, and use a totally different stun method. Apologies for any lack of clarity there.

Personally I think welfare laws should be the same for all slaughter and no religious exemptions exist from requirements to pre-stun meat. But as long as they do, I think we should talk about them accurately.

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Edit - based on the later messages, I don't consider reacting to the post I quoted that relevant anymore.

We agree. I'd also like the 12% or so of halal meat that isn't pre-stunned to be banned, an if not banned then appropriately labelled so I can avoid it.

I am unbothered by prayers being said near the animal during slaughter, so I don't feel the same need to avoid pre-stunned halal meat.

Labelling it as "halal" doesn't provide the clarity to differentiate between the two.

My issue is that there is the possibility they could become conscious (vs standard stun) and everything I’ve read states that the stun we use as British standard is haram.

Yep. It clearly matters to some consumers, the labelling needs to catch up.

I'm an atheist who eats meat. I don't care what's halal and what isn't.

Also haven't seen any smear campaigns.

Surely people have better things to worry about?

Absolutely.

Meanwhile a Sikh owned restaurant has been vandalised for not selling halal.

Where was this?

That's very sad. Is it true?