To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

[nc0007]

Well it’s not really a debate, is it? You either don’t care, or you’re absolutely seething because your meat may or may not be halal. But irrespectively of what you think about this, AIBU to think that people ‘outing’ businesses on social media about what meat they use and encouraging hundreds of people to smear them not just in posts but reviews to tank their ratings is just crazy?

Hundreds of people commenting ‘I’ve just left them a bad review on google’ because a (British owned baked potato) business extended their trading hours to their Muslim customers? People who have never bought anything from them in their life, probably geographically will never go there. Actively trying to sabotage a business because you think you’re what - some sort of activist?

And don’t get me started on the posts where people reach out to these poor customer service reps in supermarkets to ask them if the meat they sell is halal because of this mad narrative that ‘80% of supermarket meat is halal’ - where has this nonsense come from?!?! 😂 People screenshotting and commenting about how ‘Clare from Lidl’ is avoiding the question when she probably doesn’t have a scooby and the answer probably isn’t a straight yes or no either!

Madness. Utter madness. People treating this like it’s a full time job.

I don’t care what colour anyone is, what sky fairy they do or don’t believe in.
I do care passionately about animal welfare and think we can do better.

this thread is exactly why you can’t say it in real life though, because you get lumped in with “a type”.

This is also why people are attracted to Reform and their likes. They are tired of being dismissed as racist for raising often legitimate concerns.

i don’t vote Reform to be clear. I loath them.

What on? The flavour thing? It was local pizza and chicken places. It may have been a processed meat I didn’t like, rather than halal. I don’t know, and I stopped using those places because of the flavour of that meat. There are any number of things it could have been, giving that flavour. That’s why I asked about Halal, and whether it affects flavour. I know stressed animals are supposed to give bad meat. But it isn’t something I have personal knowledge or experience- I’m not a farmer, I don’t work in an abattoir.

It stopped being personally relevant years ago, as we eat less processed food, take aways, etc. I try and buy higher welfare meat when I can. I definitely don’t get the cheap family pizza and chicken deal we used to get 😅.
I still don’t like meat feast pizzas as it just reminds me of that flavour.

This is bullshit.

i’m veggie precisely because I am concerned about animal welfare and I strongly disapprove of both halal and kosher methods of slaughter.

if meat were labelled like eggs are then people could make informed decisions.

I’m not Islamophobic to hate animals being killed in a cruel way. I’m an equal opportunities hater of anyone who kills animals in a cruel way.

This. Nobody who has a problem with Muslims, is going to be honest, they never are. It is based on racism, pure, and simple.

Do you think people choosing to buy free range meat or free range eggs is "faux concern" too? It's a choice people often make in supermarkets that equally, is not something they can necessarily choose in restaurants or takeaways.

Exactly.

What I mean is it’s hard to have this conversation in real life because your immediately labelled a racist. Which limits a constructive debate on it
that’s why there’s not more open debate on it. This thread is proof of that, as people are trying to pick apart comments as some sort of proof that you’re a racist because you won’t eat halal or kosher food.

Germany banned it for animal welfare reasons and then had to back down because of the racism backlash, they did tighten their regulations but non stun is still allowed there.

Halal is not British culture; I find it abhorrent. I'm vegetarian so not an issue for me but DH certainly doesn't want to eat halal. He doesn't even eat chicken because of the sad life they've had.

I just found out last week that Stocked (frozen food cubes) can not guarantee that their meat is not halal.

No it’s because you have halal, five guys, dominos, subway under the assumption non Muslims are happy to eat it - partly because you can’t say anything for fear of the assumption of being a racist.
You have to really seek kosher food out, it’s not a main stream staple on the high street

I’m really tired of the word ’racism’ banded about when discussing differing cultural / religious practices.

Halal is a barbaric way to slaughter animals as is Kosher. The meat is also prayed over under a specific god and I don’t want that either. The fact a lot of meat isn’t explicitly labelled is my issue (Waitrose organic have been caught with hidden halal meat).

I am a meat eater but endeavour to find as humane a way to eat meat (yes yes being a veggie is the upmost humane but I’m not doing that). The same as I don’t expect my free range eggs or milk to actually be battery farmed behind the scenes irrespective of someone’s sky fairy.

My issue is informed choice.

The same 'concerns' about animal welfare cropped up just as antisemitism began heating up in 1930's Germany,

I have definitely seen the halal debate in the real world, but it is more related to nursery and school meals.

This is a good point. If we should not be fussed about eating halal, then the opposite should also be fine.

why is it racist to give a shit about animal welfare?

This is so daft.

Halal meat is specifically exempt from our welfare laws.

Its perfectly consistent to think animal welfare laws are ( a) adequate or (b) should be higher, whilst also thinking that some animals should not be killed in methods that are lower than the standards required under our UK laws, due to religion based legal exemptions.

Halal meat in supermarkets is labelled as that though? I assume you don't usually eat meat when eating out as very few restaurants use free range meat.

The vast majority of halal meat is stunned.

What other modern day parallels with 1930s Germany have you noticed?

I'm noticing quite a few affecting the Jewish community. How about you?

Stunning is not an optional extra under our law for non-religious meat, due to animal welfare concerns.

It should not be an optional extra for any slaughter house.

There’s the real discussion, in which of course it is fair that the information be made clear, and then there is the SM misinformation propaganda.

It is driven by the far right, fed by bots and fuelled with misinformation. If you live in London you will notice that every local newspaper comments page is filled with this stuff, claiming that Sadiq Khan is introducing Sharia law, the massive ‘London is not safe’ nonsense, and halal hysteria.

People should not be writing fake bad reviews as an anti-Islam / Muslims campaign. But they do. It makes them feel big and clever while they wave their flags.

We need to be more critical of misinformation and online reviews.

What about the other way round? There is a sikh Indian restaurant owner in Hammersmith who is continuously being harassed because his restaurant does not serve halal meat.
Daily he has people outside his restaurant shouting at him, throwing eggs etc

It's also unreasonable to talking about "halal" slaughter methods without differentiating between pre-stunned (the majority of halal meat in the UK) and non-stunned, if claiming to care on welfare grounds.

It's not a case of caring v not caring. If you asked 100 people who didn't know probably all of them would say the difference between halal and not halal is because a prayer is uttered at the time of slaughter.

I'm not even convinced that most Muslims understand what halal slaughter involves.

I'm not personally bothered whether the meat I eat is Halal or not (I'm much more bothered about the conditions the animal lived in).

But people have the right to know where their food came from and how it died, and to make purchasing choices based on this information.

Not wanting to eat Halal or Kosher meat is completely valid regardless of whether someone's issue is with beliefs about animal welfare or religion (whilst I couldn't care less if someone of any religion has prayed over my food, I can imagine this could be uncomfortable for someone with strong religious beliefs themselves).

Halal meat is common because there's a demand for it and it makes good business sense to produce and sell it... as long as most non Muslims will buy it too.

For people who do not want to eat Halal meat, their best course of action is to make their position clear to shops and restaurants, and to use their purchase power to buy non Halal meat. This isn't racist, it's how you improve the odds of finding food you are willing to eat in shops and restaurants.

Veggie and Vegan options aren't widely available because shops and restaurants are kind and want to be inclusive, they exist because there's a market for it.