To think it’s clear as day now that Brexit was a massive mistake and we need to rejoin the EU asap

[G3ran1um]

How can anybody still argue than it was a good idea?

Absolutely, brexit and Covid fucked the economy.

I voted YABU purely to think that govt would even consider rerunning the whole debacle

It was quite clear to a lot of people that they where lying at the time. It's just a shame so many people fell for it.

It's was clear as day to me at the time that it was never going to be a good move for us. But maybe that depended on where you live and what work you do. Our area was very clearly in favour of staying at the time.

Enjoy it then. It's a place I'd like to visit and holiday to. But no interest in living there. Glad we left. Europe's in a decline economically anyway and many nations are also dealing with the migrant crisis. Some nations are getting fined by the EU for standing their ground. Not an institution I want to be a part of.

Nuffield Trust: “But exiting the EU has left the UK with several additional problems – products no longer flow as smoothly across the borders with the EU, and in the long term our struggles to approve as many medicines might mean we have fewer alternatives available.

Yeah, there you go with your facts again.

You can prove anything with facts.

What Brexit?
We never got an actual Brexit just a watered down version of it. 🙄

Covid was no-one's fault.

There are certain things we can untangle. The costs of imports, the amount of paperwork that goes with the import / export of goods.

The cost to people who had to get new passports because their existing passports suddenly 'ran out'.

The galling thing is that Brexit didn't need to be what we ended up with, we could have stayed in the EEA for a start.

Good for you. I’m glad we stayed . I wouldn’t like to go down the same road as the uk. It sounds to me like you want to have your cake and eat it frankly.

It was never defined by anyone.

Your idea of Brexit is very different to the next Leave voter.

So how can you say it was watered down when an actual plan was never created?

There were some basic principles for a Brexit ;

Repeal the European Elections Act (2002) to ensure no British national can stand for election to the European Parliament in 2019
Take back control of Britain's fisheries
End "the obscenity" of discarded fish, make best use of all fish caught and sell in the UK
Re-instate the classic blue passport when the British passport contract comes up for renewal in 2019
Stop businesses from paying tax in whichever EU or associated country they choose
Cut unnecessary EU regulation from the 88% of the UK economy not linked to trade with EU countries
Prioritise free trade agreements with non-EU countries.
Free Britain from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, and if desired, relinquish membership of the European Court of Human Rights
Full control of immigration and asylum policies, and border control
Control of Britain's 200 mile maritime exclusive economic zone, and no constraints on its fishing fleet
Retake seat on the World Trade Organisation and resume right to sign trade agreements with other entities or supra-national bodies
No 'divorce' payment to the EU or contribution to the EU budget. UK must be paid share of financial assets
Brexit must be done and dusted before the end of 2019.

Is our economy that fundamentally strong if a few custom checks and paperwork wreck it and bring it to its knees?

Would that it were just a few custom checks and paperwork. It massively increases import/export costs. Companies either pass that increase in costs on to customers, who may well then vote with their wallets, or try to absorb it and be unable too.
And the admin time and complexity involved is just not viable for many companies either.

@SevenYellowHammers C4 news has just this minute said our economy will suffer more than EU countries as a result of fucking Trump’s illegal war.

That has very little to do with leaving the EU and very much to do with successive British governments since Thatcher in 1979 slavishly following neoliberal policies of privatisation. We don't own anything anymore, so we don't have any levers to pull. The UK was in the shit when we were in the EU, it's just that the EU provided a nice little fig leaf so those who were minded to ignore our home grown problems could go about their days thinking all was rosy in the garden.

And where were thes fundamentals agreed upo and promoted as such during the campaign?

Some Brexshitters will have espoused these.

It was never presented as such.

And don’t forget there is another party involved. The EU. Just because GB stamps its little foot again and demands all that doesn’t mean it’s going to get it.

It was a pig’s ear. Not planned. And the very fact Faridge espoused it is a big red flag.

Agreed Op
I am desperately trying to find something positive about Brexit

I don’t necessarily disagree. I was a reluctant remainer based upon my views about human/animal rights and liking being European, not economics-because it’s a capitalist or at least neoliberal structure. I did look into left’s reasoning to leave. However, since Brexit I’m a much more staunch believer in that we should have remained and some of those reasons are quite personal- I am of Portuguese/Spanish descent and I like Europe, I like being European and part of that union. Or liked it, I should say. Since Brexit everything feels a bit worse in UK, this might be subjective but it feels meaner . And certainly, whilst I’m no economist, the Euro does seem to get you more than the pound (or dollar). Put it this way, there’s no discernible benefit to being out of the EU and it took a lot of angst , time , money and effort (plus being bored to death with it) to achieve nothing . I doubt we can return but if we did I’d hope for a better and unified response to asylum seekers and people put into perilous boat journeys across channel. But you are right of course, Thatcher was a disaster, she sold off everything and left whole regions of UK devoid of their industries. Now those poor people are being demonised as racists because they have nothing but the perception that immigrants are somehow getting their share of things. The greatest confidence trick pulled off by the ruling classes is to divide the poor. Thatcher empowered the far right as Brexit does now. It’s a shit state of affairs.

It allowed the government to put VAT on private school fees

Is that it? All that argument and faff . So nothing really.

Some selective quoting there!

You missed out this crucial statement;

'The report shows that the EU Exit has not caused the recent spike in medicine shortages...'

Plus this is missing before your quote;

“We know many of the problems are global and relate to fragile chains of imports from Asia, squeezed by Covid-19 shutdowns, inflation and global instability. Officials in the UK have put in place a much more sophisticated system to monitor and respond, and used extra payments to try to keep products flowing. But..."

ADHD and HRT meds have been in shortage since Brexit

The Nuffield Trust explain HRT shortages here;

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/chart-of-the-week-hormone-replacement-therapy-prescriptions-rise-42-in-one-year

Sadly it is not going to happen for a long time.