Enjoying quiet drink & elder man approaches

[IndigoBluey]

I had a much needed free and solo afternoon today. Went for a long walk in the sun, coffee, just enjoyed being by myself for once. I was keen to see the rugby score and so stopped off for a drink in a local pub by myself. I am a 34 year old woman. It was such a fun atmosphere. Until, an older guy, maybe 70 saddled up to my table and started to engage in chat. I wasn’t in the mood, I was really keen to watch the match and this was the final ten minutes. He asked a few questions and when I didn’t answer he just stood right by me where I was sat down looking and smiling. I felt really awkward and aware that others in the pub were looking now. He then asked my name and I quite directly told him I just want to watch the match. He then left in a huff. I felt a little bad after, thinking maybe I was rude and worse, he was lonely and wanted some chat but then there were other older men on their own standing at the bar so he could have chatted with them. Anyway off he went and I left after the match ended about 15 minutes later to walk home and saw him on the corner of the street five minutes along, fine as it it a small town but awkward as he clocked me. Was I rude or is it fine to say no thanks to chat to random people

It's my fault for getting drawn into the thread.
I mean it's a total non-event.
Woman in mid-30s walks into pub alone. Old guy-who may or may not be chatting her up-attempts to talk to her.

She tells him she doesn't want to talk to him. He leaves her alone.
End of.

Mumsnet age gap rage again. 😂
What does half his age mean, would it have been ok if Op had been abit nearer his age then?
An unwanted chat is an unwanted chat.
How the hell does everybody know how old people are anyway
My DH looks younger than he is

He put his jacket on the back of your chair? Creepy.

You did the right thing.

She wasn't his daughter though.
Does everyone who has a partner the same age stick together for ever then?
No divorces between people the same age?

I was the same age as my husband we divorced after three years. I've been with my current partner many more years and still happy. He is older than me
That should tell you something, for example it's nothing to do with the age as to why it works out. Age is just a number.
How people of the world cannot understand it, is abit thick to me.😴

This would make me feel very uncomfortable, the whole coat on your chair thing was creepy and I’d have sent him away with a flea in his ear

I was going to say this isn't the 1800's and op can have a drink in a pub if she wants, but it actually appears it's only within my lifetime, 1982, that women have even been allowed to go up to the bar to buy a drink. Prior to that they had to wait at a table for the man to buy them their drink!

https://wb.camra.org.uk/2023/04/25/ladies-in-the-lounge-gentlemen-at-the-bar

Anyway, no one owes anyone a conversation, and he should have just left when she made it clear the first time.
Plus, op said it is her local, she knows the landlord/lady

It wouldn’t have been OK whatever age he was. The OP didn’t want to talk to him. His age is completely irrelevant . The issue is male entitlement.

I know a lot about Camra (I can't say too much as it would be outing.)
Interesting article.
Indeed, I love real ale but there's no getting around the fact that men and women do socialise in pubs differently.

I've been in lots of pubs and I've seen men go in alone and just give a friendly nod to the other guys and not talk at all.
Being in the same room is enough.
Ten men sitting apart.

I have never, ever seen individual women do this. Ever.
You won't get 10 women sitting in a pub apart and not interacting with each other.
They usually go with other people or to meet others.
Indeed the only pub I ever see lone women in is the Wetherspoon's chain (who in spite of their negative image, are excellent for real ale) and this is because these pubs are more like cafes with alcohol. They have areas analogous to snugs.

Just because this is OP's local does not mean she goes there regularly.
She seems to know nothing about pub culture.
Nothing about the fact that if you're a woman alone people either feel sorry for you and try to get you to join in or chat you up.
Apart from Spoons, it does feel weird to just go into a pub alone. For me, anyway.
If I go out to the pub, I want to interact with other people.
Maybe the old guy assumed this of her, too.

And that’s all well and good, but that’s your view of pub culture and that it’s ’weird’ to go to the pub on your own (from your description, only if you’re a woman?). Lots of women go to the pub alone, whether you’ve seen this or not. If you go to the pub, you want to interact with others- this is not the case for everyone and whether or not this guy thought the OP was ‘lonely’ it shouldn’t have been difficult for him to read the room and move on when it was clear she wasn’t.

Yep it's very weird. Where I live we get all kinds of people in the pub and yes, women on their own shock/horror they are usually reading or chilling out or eating a meal on their own and none of them are desperate or looking for men 40 years older than them to sidle up to them and chat. Not one.

Age is just a number? oh ok. so you'd happily date a 70 year old at age 30 then would you?.... Because noone I know would do that. Women in their 30s generally do not want sleazy old men who are well over retirement age trying to get them to go out with them

I've only ever known a few women go to pubs alone (or rather they may be alone until their friends arrive) unless it's in Spoons.

I don't believe you that lots go in alone at all. Sorry I don't. It's not reality.
And I've been to a lot of pubs of all types around the UK.
Therefore it is not weird at all that this old guy thought she wanted company.
I'd feel the same.
OK he was wrong but so what? No harm done besides which he did piss off when she made it clear that in fact she wanted to be alone so no problem. She's making a fuss over nothing.

In any case it's really odd that all these women supposedly visiting pubs alone haven't yet mastered the art of politely telling people to leave them alone, isn't it?

They don’t need to though - why are you expecting women to police other people’s behaviour? Believe me or not, it honestly makes no difference, but women do have agency and can and do visit pubs alone. Genuinely not sure why you find this so surprising - I posted earlier about this, but women alone often face the challenge of being accused of being rude if they tell someone (usually a man) that they don’t want company, or that statement is just ignored. Alternatively, if they try to politely get them to leave, it’s seen that they are interested in conversation. In short, it shouldn’t be up to the lone woman to manage the other person’s behaviour - it should be for that person to realise their presence isn’t required and politely leave. In this case that’s not what happened - eventually the guy left in a strop.
The right thing would have been to politely leave her alone, get on with his day and go and try and make conversation elsewhere. That’s the point.

But women are often not comfortable telling a man to fuck off, or even politely telling him to leave them alone (which the OP did). That's because they invariably take it badly and there is always the risk of them getting aggressive.

I can't count the times I have had men try to encroach on my time and space and get angry when I insist on my right to both. A few weeks ago I was called a 'fucking cunt, is everyone in this town as rude as you?' in the street when I kept walking past a man sidling up to me trying to talk to me about something. Might have been asking the way but I was walking fast, obviously in a hurry, in a busy street with loads of other people he could have asked. So I don't care if anyone thinks I was rude - it just felt wrong and I trusted my instincts. As the OP did hers.

It's odd but I can see a mile off when people don't want company. If they are watching a screen intently, if their head is in a book, or if they are just not making eye contact with anyone. I am out & about frequently with my DS who has learning difficulties, he will chat to anyone close by. Some people are happy to chat back, others not - and I can tell at a glance and I make sure DS doesn't bother them.

I refuse to believe that men are thick and unable to tell which people don't want to engage. Many of them may not have any nefarious motives but they do just feel automatic entitlement to women's attention. This man putting his jacket on the OP's chair showed that entitlement and refusal to read the room.

I don't think she is making a fuss about nothing. No it is not a huge issue, but it is annoying and disturbing to one's peace of mind to be disturbed and interrupted when it is clear they don't want to be.

Exactly, and many of us in this thread have described how men have reacted angrily and aggressively and sworn at us simply because we politely told them we did not want to chat with them and yet thats continually ignored by some posters in this thread who still insist that its women that need to "be kind" and indulge random strange men trying to engage us in conversation.

God forbid the men should ever have to pick up on any social cues whatsoever or have any sensitivity for women who might not want to talk to them, oh no, its always the women who are at fault isnt it? (despite all our experiences of having men shout and curse at us in public for daring to not want to talk to them) 🙄

I’d say it’s often quite easy to discern between the just having a chat type and the creepy guy thinking women owe him some entertainment.

this wasn’t some scenario where she came up to the bar where he was sitting and had a pleasant chat while waiting to be served.

an old man walking up to a young woman and putting his coat on her chair is really bloody weird…

how many people have you seen sitting alone and gone and sat next to them? I’ve never done it and I’m a pretty sociable and happily chat to most people in passing

Blanking someone and staring at your screen IS direct. And it's exactly the sort of thing men do to people they aren't interested in talking to. It's not a subtle hint, where only those who are black belts in body language have a chance of working it out. There is no reason to suppose he was in anyway confused about how interested OP was in a conversation.

It's not about policing other people's behaviour.
This is nonsense (unless you regard every interaction where anybody tells anyone else 'no' is them 'policing' behaviour.)
The notion that it is usual for women to go to pubs to sit alone is utter and complete bullshit. I can't stress this enough.
Even in the unusual circumstances that they do, they tend to be gregarious and not wallflowers (even most men go to pubs to talk to other people).
The only exception to the women going to sit alone are in places like Spoons where in certain areas of the pub there is a cafe vibe.

The bottom line is that a pub is a place where alcohol is served to more than one person and anyone permitted to go there should have the common sense to realise that alcohol makes people more chatty and maybe less able to accurately assess subtle social cues while also accepting that the default position is that people may attempt to interact with them.

It's fine if they want to be left alone - and of course they should say if this is the case and have this respected- but to act all wow I went into a pub and someone tried to talk to me is ridiculous.

I think that a lot of people disagreeing with me go to naice pubs with reserved tables with barbed wire and armed guards around them (joke) but then surely they wouldn't go into a pub to sit alone if this were the case so I don't know. Lol.

Perhaps you think that you are striking a blow for femake equality but to be honest I think that you're just making us look like idiots who don't know what pubs and alcohol are about.

Absolute rubbish.

Perhaps you think you are striking a blow for defending men but you are making them out to be grunting cave men who are literally so stupid, so utterly unaware of their surroundings or other people in the world, that they cannot work out in their minuscule brains that when someone is obviously ignoring them they dont wish to talk to them.

Good grief 🤣 how do these men even function in their jobs if they are that horrifically dense?

They may not be thick, just drunk.
To be fair alcohol affects women's ability to correctly assess situations, too!!

Hey there's a thought: maybe OP was drunk and her recollection is incorrect. Does she say she was drinking only soft drinks?

Because they've been consuming alcohol and that makes people less able to accurately assess subtle social cues.

(Did you miss the part about all this taking place in a public house or something? Did you think it was in a library or the local zoo?)

Even 'not my Nigel' is a bit mentally impaired after 3 pints of ale.
Do you never consider why we have drink driving laws? It's because alcohol affects people's ability to make good decisions.

The overarching lesson here is not to go to pubs if we can't tolerate pissed people.

As adults, we have this choice.

Are you quite alright?
I often go into town to the pubs. Perhaps I’m lucky that there are many pubs to choose from. I usually drive so don’t drink. The times I visit the vast majority of people are not drunk, I’m not saying they are not drinking alcohol but they are not drunk. Most people stay in their own little groups or stay solo. They chat to bar staff and people they know. They might nod or exchange a few words at the bar. They do not approach random strangers and harras them. Certain pubs are better for watching sport. People may casually chat about the sport shown.
Yes I’m lucky in that I can pick and choose which pubs I go to, we have a good selection. I don’t see men harassing women. It’s not an acceptable excuse that a woman in a pub is some kind of problem and needs male intervention. I’m quite sure the bar staff/regulars would stamp that out.
You need to stop victim blaming.

There is absolutely nothing in the OP's post that suggests that she was drunk, you are really clutching at straws there. In any case alcohol has the effect of lowering someone's guard, not raising it.

You seem invested in finding a way for the OP to be in the wrong, to the extent that it is rather strange. The idea that women should just accept being harassed by men if they have the temerity to venture into pubs alone, because 'they're drunk, what did you expect?' is not something I can ever endorse. I've had too many bad experiences in my life as the recipient of this kind of behaviour.

Perhaps it is the men who should control their drinking if they know they are liable to behave inappropriately and bother other people when drunk? But then it would be men who have to change their behaviour, and we can't have that. Heaven forfend.

You don't have to be visibly drunk to have your judgement impaired by alcohol. Far from it. In any case, if they're strangers how do you know whether they're affected by booze or not? There's no baseline of sobriety to compare with.

And what this guy did was not harassment at all because you're right the bar staff would've intervened. That proves it was not harassment.

In this particular case, the OP is making a fuss over nothing.

I never said she was a problem only that as a presumably reasonably intelligent woman she is being ridiculous in her assumption that in social environment where alcohol is being consumed people may not leave her completely alone and that she should be prepared for this.
Do you think that men don't have this issue, too?
I've seen guys who wish to be alone chatted to by other men who want him to join them but, funnily enough, they just say "no thanks mate, not in the mood had a bad day".
They don't go starting threads on social media about it.