Lucy Letby case expert witness was under fitness to practise investigation

[ITMA2000]

Wow! Pot, kettle, black? Need a new investigation?
Lucy Letby case expert witness was under fitness to practise investigation during trial | Lucy Letby | The Guardian

Oh god it’s ages ago / it often used to say posters were oversimplifying and not taking how the process works into account and would come up with things not considered

you can do it yourself and say which pov you have and it will always come up with a supportive argument

It was interesting about the stats stuff I seem to remember

at the end of the day it can argue for whichever side you want

Oh goody, now it's onto judge Goss for the smear campaign is it? Will it be Dr Marnerides next?

This seems to be very true. If the stats as they stand didn't make her look very guilty they wouldn't be constantly demanding new stats and saying they were done all wrong. They know it looks very bad for her.

It seems the more guilty you are the more people want to defend you.

Do you not think it’s possible that statisticians care only about statistics, and the use and mis-use of statistics, more than they care about Letby herself?

So that’s a no, no substance at all. And that’s even before we remember that ChatGPT makes stuff up and tends to agree with the questioner.

Smear campaign? It's reporting the decisions he made publicly at the trial.

If the statistics used at the trial were properly calculated and evidenced, nobody would be in a position to "demand" new ones.

So long as they are left uncorrected, people will not have confidence in the outcome of this trial, since for all we know the jury took them seriously.

No because they all seem to think she's almost definitely innocent. Which if they're so obsessed with statistics, how can they possibly know without all the correct data? Especially if they're unwilling to look at the case as a whole.

And calling it the "Lucy Letby scandal"? The only scandal is these utter losers making videos defending her. And trying to discredit anyone and everyone involved in putting her away. It absolutely has been a smear campaign. What's concerning is so many of the general public can't see through it.

On that note, let's have a look at some of the concerns raised and material produced by the Royal Statistical Society about the use of statistics in courts well before the Letby trial.

Sally Clark RSS statement, October 2001.

https://rss.org.uk/RSS/media/File-library/Membership/Sections/2020/Sally-Clark-RSS-statement-2001.pdf

Practitioner guides dated from November 2010-January 2015.

https://rss.org.uk/news-publication/publications/law-guides/

A guide for advocates, in association with the Inns of Court (barristers) in 2017

https://rss.org.uk/RSS/media/File-library/Publications/ICCA-RSS-guide-version-6-branded-171019-REV03-designed-covers.pdf

This is in addition to the 2022 publication on statistics and criminal investigation of healthcare workers, which I won't link to again because anyone who hasn't read or at least acknowledged it by now never will.

Some really useful stuff here. Anyone would think this eminent group of leading professional statisticians had identified problems and a need for expert guidance in the field of statistics a long time ago.

Well quite. This poster has quite consistently, but entirely inadvertently and unwittingly, argued in favour of accurate statistical analysis in many of their responses.

You're constantly making up absolute crap.

"the more guilty you are the more people want to defend you" 🙄🙄😆

Exactly - that’s what was pointing out when someone said go use it! Someonefor LL innocence arguments

I know what I’ve read and my own decisions - you don’t get to decide for me and past judgement according to yourself all the time

@kkloo really? As it stands she's the worst child killer in UK modern history and she has a whole army of fans. In fact wouldn't be surprised if they start calling themselves "Lucy's army" soon if that hasn't happened already.

Yet people who are in jail for minor crimes where it's genuinely a MOJ have none of this support. There's a whole cult around pretending she's the victim and everyone else is the villain that goes far beyond questioning if it's a possible MOJ.

Ah - I was talking about ChatGPT arguing for whichever side you want

Yes it's a scandal.

I am certain that at some point LL will be freed, and even if she did it, I don't think she did but let's say she did, then it is the fault of the police and CPS for putting a case full of holes forward in the first place.

Now some might think it's enough for them to put through a case as long as they get their victory, but if it's full of holes (which it is) they have left it wide open for future challenge, and wasted their chance of getting it right.

LL could have accepted her fate and believed she was never getting out but others would still have intervened on her behalf to protect the integrity of the legal system.

So if/when she gets out firefly you will of course try to blame the 'Lucy Letby fans', but the blame is with the police and CPS for this absolute shitshow of a case.

There's families who have been told that a serial killer harmed or killed their babies and who have now got that verdict. Some may be also having doubts for all we know.

There's families who have got the guilty verdict for their babies but yet no one is being held accountable for the substandard care the babies also received.

There's families who didn't get any answer at the trial (even a wrong one) and it doesn't seem like there's any attempt to give them one.

There's families who have been told they think LL harmed their babies who thought it might get to court but the CPS didn't proceed.

There's families who think after hearing the news stories that LL might have harmed their babies but the police didn't investigate their cases

And there's also families who say their baby collapsed or suffered harm at COCH in similar circumstances but yet the police don't care and no one seems to be investigating because LL wasn't there at the time.

And this is all due to an amateur and embarrassing investigation where the police just went with what Dewi Evans said and his far-fetched methods of harm and couldn't be bothered to actually verify and make sure the case was actually robust and would stand up to scrutiny.

Yeah sorry I twigged that after I posted!

No worries

The families I’ve seen written about that were at the trial aren’t confused at all about LL guilty verdict and said they had no doubts

As it stands there's a ton of evidence to show that she is not in fact the worst child killer in UK modern history and that instead this in fact the worst miscarriage of justice in UK modern history yet she's in jail with 15 whole life orders.

That's why people are supporting the campaign.

Hope that helps.

I highly doubt any would say it publicly if they did have any doubts.

This is such an important point.

I'm not going to make predictions, but what we do know is that this is a case replete with problems. There are issues both structural and specific to this set of proceedings, which is why the possibility of an MOJ has been an international story and shows no sign of going away any time soon. These things are facts.

And if in fact she did kill some, all or an even higher number of babies, that actually makes the problems with the case even less acceptable. Obviously the idea that she's going to nurse again is irredeemably idiotic, but if one of these obvious problems leads to the convictions eventually being declared unsafe, that raises the possibility that someone who really did do it is going to get out because the system has fucked it up.

If I believed as strongly as some of the internet's finest that she was as guilty as sin, I'd be really fucked off about that possibility.

Oh come on - these are the parents that have been waiting for the truth - they said they were relieved and since have said it’s excruciating to have to keep
heqrong about appeals all the time

Yes it was Richard Gill.