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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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16
TheKeatingFive · 04/03/2026 14:59

Twiglets1 · 04/03/2026 14:45

I mean … not all women see things the same way with trans issues.

Though I think we would agree, there are a lot of different opinions out there.

Well no, but it can be hard to fathom why some women don't understand the importance of maintaining single sex spaces for women in prisons, domestic violence shelters, rape crisis centres and so on.

LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 15:01

TheKeatingFive · 04/03/2026 14:59

Well no, but it can be hard to fathom why some women don't understand the importance of maintaining single sex spaces for women in prisons, domestic violence shelters, rape crisis centres and so on.

Yes, that’s the crux of it!

All this ‘live and let live’ is well and good until it puts women and girls in danger.

Or even just makes them feel uncomfortable.

No woman should be ok with that.

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HeadDeskHeadDesk · 04/03/2026 15:04

The 'progressive' left (has any description ever been less apt?) have absolutely lost their fucking minds where Israel is concerned. They are a disgrace. They have been totally captured by Hamas lies and propaganda.

Twiglets1 · 04/03/2026 15:05

TheKeatingFive · 04/03/2026 14:59

Well no, but it can be hard to fathom why some women don't understand the importance of maintaining single sex spaces for women in prisons, domestic violence shelters, rape crisis centres and so on.

I agree it is hard to fathom but I do know opinions differ so it's not surprising to me that the Green Party can get female candidates to match their stance on that tbh.

Twiglets1 · 04/03/2026 15:05

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 04/03/2026 15:04

The 'progressive' left (has any description ever been less apt?) have absolutely lost their fucking minds where Israel is concerned. They are a disgrace. They have been totally captured by Hamas lies and propaganda.

Yes I agree.

LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 15:07

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 04/03/2026 15:04

The 'progressive' left (has any description ever been less apt?) have absolutely lost their fucking minds where Israel is concerned. They are a disgrace. They have been totally captured by Hamas lies and propaganda.

Yep.

And as a previous poster said; they see themselves as the good guys.

If it wasn’t so tragic you’d laugh.

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LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 15:07

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 04/03/2026 15:04

The 'progressive' left (has any description ever been less apt?) have absolutely lost their fucking minds where Israel is concerned. They are a disgrace. They have been totally captured by Hamas lies and propaganda.

Also your username is very apt as that is what most sane people feel like doing these days I bet.

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OneLoyalLurker · 04/03/2026 15:15

This reply has been deleted

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EasternStandard · 04/03/2026 15:16

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 04/03/2026 15:04

The 'progressive' left (has any description ever been less apt?) have absolutely lost their fucking minds where Israel is concerned. They are a disgrace. They have been totally captured by Hamas lies and propaganda.

Regressive is more apt in some cases.

They should drop the label tbf

LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 15:19

This reply has been deleted

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Why did the women who were raped and killed not come forward?? Are you for real?

As for the rest of your post…words fail me

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LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 15:20

I never know whether or not to report these posts or hope they stay up so more people can see how utterly vile some people are!!

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EasternStandard · 04/03/2026 15:22

This reply has been deleted

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This is pretty bad @OneLoyalLurkerhopefully you’ll realise that

SidewaysOtter · 04/03/2026 15:27

HeadDeskHeadDesk · 04/03/2026 15:04

The 'progressive' left (has any description ever been less apt?) have absolutely lost their fucking minds where Israel is concerned. They are a disgrace. They have been totally captured by Hamas lies and propaganda.

And let's not forget support for Ayatollah Khamenei and the Iranian regime (which sounds like a bad pop group, rather than the murderous bunch of arseholes they were/are).

Crunt · 04/03/2026 15:27

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can't believe anyone needs to explain this to you, but many couldn't testify because they weren't alive to. Murdered after prolonged brutal attacks and torture. But still you ignore the testimonies of eye witnesses, autopsies, released hostage accounts, survivors, video footage...I despair at the utter lack of humanity.

Thingything · 04/03/2026 15:30

LucyWestenra · 02/03/2026 17:10

I looked at the article as really wanted to see the other side (if nothing else I hate the Daily Mail) but this really is beyond low. We saw ample coverage of women, alive and dead, with bloodstained clothing, bloodstained thighs. There are numerous witness accounts. I cannot even begin to understand why someone would deny this.

LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 15:31

Crunt · 04/03/2026 15:27

can't believe anyone needs to explain this to you, but many couldn't testify because they weren't alive to. Murdered after prolonged brutal attacks and torture. But still you ignore the testimonies of eye witnesses, autopsies, released hostage accounts, survivors, video footage...I despair at the utter lack of humanity.

Yes, total lack of humanity.

But only when it comes to Jewish people. They are fair game.

Utterly reprehensible.

I’m hoping that person is just a sick troll.

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Thingything · 04/03/2026 15:34

This reply has been deleted

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Israeli forces raping anyone is a war crime and should absolutely be exposed. I am surprised it has been commented on so little.

But the two things can co-exist. There are ample pictures you can see with your own eyes of female hostages (alive and dead) with bloodstained clothing, posts from Palestinian social media, pictures from reputable international sources.

Acknowledging that widespread sexual violence took place is not the same as saying that innocent Palestinian women and children deserved to be slaughtered. But it is acknowledging a fact. Of a terrible thing that happened to equally innocent Israeli women.

LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 15:35

Thingything · 04/03/2026 15:30

I looked at the article as really wanted to see the other side (if nothing else I hate the Daily Mail) but this really is beyond low. We saw ample coverage of women, alive and dead, with bloodstained clothing, bloodstained thighs. There are numerous witness accounts. I cannot even begin to understand why someone would deny this.

I know, it’s so deeply upsetting.

And infuriating.

Imagine this happening at a music festival over here or anywhere in Europe…it was barbaric. And the attacks in the Kibuzzes as well.

I will never forget the face of Shiri Bibas when she was abducted with her two babies.

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HappyFace2025 · 04/03/2026 15:37

@OneLoyalLurker Many Israeli women, at least those who didn't die of their injuries, HAVE come out and spoken about their rapes and sexual attacks on and after 7 October when they were kidnapped! Even the Guardian (no supporter of Israel) reported them. Shame on you with your misinformation and lies.

Thingything · 04/03/2026 15:40

LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 15:35

I know, it’s so deeply upsetting.

And infuriating.

Imagine this happening at a music festival over here or anywhere in Europe…it was barbaric. And the attacks in the Kibuzzes as well.

I will never forget the face of Shiri Bibas when she was abducted with her two babies.

I just don't understand the need for such insane denial of the facts. It's absolutely possible to feel that women and children in Palestine shouldn't be murdered AND ALSO that Hamas are utterly evil and barbaric and Israeli women and children shouldn't be murdered. How about we feel empathy for any and all innocent victims. Why does our empathy need to somehow be limited to an either / or one side is all good and the other side is all evil?

Firry · 04/03/2026 15:45

Thingything · 04/03/2026 15:40

I just don't understand the need for such insane denial of the facts. It's absolutely possible to feel that women and children in Palestine shouldn't be murdered AND ALSO that Hamas are utterly evil and barbaric and Israeli women and children shouldn't be murdered. How about we feel empathy for any and all innocent victims. Why does our empathy need to somehow be limited to an either / or one side is all good and the other side is all evil?

It’s all about being seen as Good People. Good People only deal in black and white. They’re either passionately FOR something or passionately AGAINST something. They don’t deal in nuance. No one ever got overexcited about nuance.

LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 15:45

HappyFace2025 · 04/03/2026 15:37

@OneLoyalLurker Many Israeli women, at least those who didn't die of their injuries, HAVE come out and spoken about their rapes and sexual attacks on and after 7 October when they were kidnapped! Even the Guardian (no supporter of Israel) reported them. Shame on you with your misinformation and lies.

Edited

I am so sorry you have to keep seeing vile posts like that @HappyFace2025 .

I wish there was something those of us who abhor those views could do to counteract it all.

Just posting online in support doesn’t seem enough.

But I remember a poster on a previous thread of mine said she’d sent an email to her MP (didn’t say who it was) about the pro Palestine marches and how the Jewish community was being harassed and felt intimidated and said she just received a mealy mouthed response.

So this goes way deeper than just ignorant people posting online Mumsnet.

The antisemitism is deeply embedded within politics too and it’s the same in my home country.

I could say why I think this is the case but I think most of us know.

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HappyFace2025 · 04/03/2026 15:52

@LucyWestenra thank you once again for your support. Posting online shows Jewish people that not everyone hates us, which might be surmised if a Martian fell to earth and read some of the comments here! ❤️

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 15:55

I am part Jewish and not antisemetic, but some of the things she is saying are along the lines of what professionals have said - the woman appointed to investigate rape said that, after asking Israel for all relevant information and evidence and reviewing all evidence in existance, there was no evidence of organised or systematic rape, that there was very little evidence of rape at all (although there was no denial that it could have happened) and that some false evidence had been given (a family of a girl who had been tragically killed publicly said that the reports she had been raped were untrue, they knew this as someone had been in phone contact up to the point of death). I can't remember the woman's name but I could find out.

The reports of babies being beheaded were also shown to be debunked. There were also reports which showed evidence that some of the physical damage had been done by IDF (this is not to do with rape obviously) and that many of the burned victims were Palestinian civilians who had followed Hamas through the fences. Some reports said that some of the killing and potential rape could have been done by the civilian groups. There were reports from inside Israel by Israelis saying that their family and friends near the border had been calling for help from Israel for several hours before help arrived - this is what Charlie Kirk was saying in interviews in the month leading up to his death, and there was a lot of anger from some quarters that this was being said.

This is not to lessen the horror of the 2 year long hostage situation. It is more that the professionals involved felt it was important to be accurate about what evidence there is and what evidence does not exist or is lacking.

She also commented on "lebensraum" which is not permitted according to Jewish websites, as any comparison with Hitler is seen as antisemetic (even though the lebensraum ideology in fact originally came from America in relation to the colonisers' perceived right to take land from Native Americans, Hitler found this inspiring) but moving away from that word, there has been a lot of talk from Zionist quarters and indeed Trump, apparently, about a "Greater Israel" which arguably could amount to the same thing.

I think it is more important for everyone to focus on a two state solution and protecting Gaza from non-Palestinian property developer billionairs, rather than any partisan tweeting.

OrangeAxolotyl · 04/03/2026 15:55

HappyFace2025 · 04/03/2026 15:52

@LucyWestenra thank you once again for your support. Posting online shows Jewish people that not everyone hates us, which might be surmised if a Martian fell to earth and read some of the comments here! ❤️

Please understand this! I'm not Jewish, no connection to Israel, I've just been horrified at the rise in antisemitism and decided I was always going to speak up.
Like the saying about good people doing nothing. That was a very distressing post, but it's been deleted, so I hope you can feel that not everyone feels that way.
🙏