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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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16
Original poster
LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 16:40

IcyPlumShaker · 04/03/2026 16:28

Surely we can avoid childish terminology like ' making Israel the baddie ' ?

As another poster has said, surely we can be objective and factual about this?

Yes, Hamas carried out an appalling attack on October 7th, kidnapping and killing hundreds of Israelis, including people who were at a music festival. I don't know whether any of the Israeli women who were there were raped, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

Also yes, Israel has carried out a genocide against the Palestinian people, settling on land that was agreed to be theirs, conducting violence and intimidation against them, and - most recently - bombing Gaza to absolute rubble.

Both of these things can be - and I believe are - true at the same time. You don't need to make one side or the other the ' baddie ' . We're not in kindergarten ffs.

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Ok, thank you for your input.

Bye.

OP posts:
HappyFace2025 · 04/03/2026 16:40

Israel has not committed genocide and repeating the lie will not make it true.

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 16:41

Firry · 04/03/2026 16:37

I think the Iranian regime are evil terrorists and whatever fills the void must SURELY be a better outcome for the Iranian people. It’s not hard to envision a government that doesn’t mass slaughter its civilian population. They’ve set a low bar.

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Where do you find your information? I have checked the relevant UK govmt website pages and it doesn't say this.

How would you like your country to be bombed by a third party who decided that there should be a regime change? How has regime changes helped Syria or Iraq?

I think you are just jumping on a bandwagon like the other poster, without having any idea of the potential consequences.

Original poster
LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 16:42

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 16:29

Excuse me, no one is trying to make Israel the baddie. I am sorry but I am seriously questioning your motive here too. This is a predominantly very partisan thread and not helpful at all.

I am out now.

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Yes, you’re right, this thread is one in support of the Jewish community, in a sea of pro Palestine ones.

I’m sorry if this offends you.

Thank you for your input.

OP posts:
IcyPlumShaker · 04/03/2026 16:43

HappyFace2025 · 04/03/2026 16:40

Israel has not committed genocide and repeating the lie will not make it true.

Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, according to the UN commission of enquiry.

Link is here: Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, UN commission of inquiry says - BBC News

Happy to help. ( As it used to say on my ASDA badge )

Doesn't make what happened on Oct 7th any less appalling, obviously - but I only say that because I'm capable of holding two different thoughts in my head at one time. Unlike some.

Original poster
LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 16:43

IcyPlumShaker · 04/03/2026 16:28

Surely we can avoid childish terminology like ' making Israel the baddie ' ?

As another poster has said, surely we can be objective and factual about this?

Yes, Hamas carried out an appalling attack on October 7th, kidnapping and killing hundreds of Israelis, including people who were at a music festival. I don't know whether any of the Israeli women who were there were raped, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

Also yes, Israel has carried out a genocide against the Palestinian people, settling on land that was agreed to be theirs, conducting violence and intimidation against them, and - most recently - bombing Gaza to absolute rubble.

Both of these things can be - and I believe are - true at the same time. You don't need to make one side or the other the ' baddie ' . We're not in kindergarten ffs.

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And no, it wasn’t and isn’t a genocide.

OP posts:
SidewaysOtter · 04/03/2026 16:44

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 16:38

Just to clarify here for you, before I go, the coherent point was "If you genuinely support human rights, extend it to all human beings not just one group"

Rather than jump on a bandwagon without investigating, investigate for yourself.

I think that that is coherent.

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It really isn't.

IcyPlumShaker · 04/03/2026 16:45

LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 16:43

And no, it wasn’t and isn’t a genocide.

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If I can refer you to my previous post...

... actually, hang on, I still have the link saved: Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, UN commission of inquiry says - BBC News

Original poster
LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 16:46

HappyFace2025 · 04/03/2026 16:40

Israel has not committed genocide and repeating the lie will not make it true.

I am catching up and I have honestly just posted this myself.

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 04/03/2026 16:52

IcyPlumShaker · 04/03/2026 16:45

If I can refer you to my previous post...

... actually, hang on, I still have the link saved: Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, UN commission of inquiry says - BBC News

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That's just one enquiry though.

Legally, the case that South Africa brought before the International Court of Justice in December 2023 (South Africa v Israel) is still ongoing.

No decision has been reached so to say that Israel has committed genocide is your opinion not a legal verdict.

Ihatetomatoes · 04/03/2026 16:53

HappyFace2025 · 02/03/2026 17:21

She is an absolute disgrace to women everywhere, especially those Israeli women who have told the world about their rapes and sexual abuse both on October 7 and when they were held hostage. 😡

This.

Rape deniers are disgusting. Vile.

I will never vote for a party who deny women who are raped.

"Green Party leader Zack Polanski has hired a spin doctor who denies women were raped in the October 7 Hamas attacks in Israel.

Abi Wilkinson – appointed just days before the party’s victory in the Gorton and Denton by-election – posted on social media: ‘There is no Israeli woman who’s said she was raped by militants.’

She also tweeted: ‘There’s absolutely no new evidence, there is not a single identified victim.’"

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 16:54

LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 16:42

Yes, you’re right, this thread is one in support of the Jewish community, in a sea of pro Palestine ones.

I’m sorry if this offends you.

Thank you for your input.

Show quote history

Your other post said that you were not Jewish. I do however have Jewish heritage. I find antisemitism abhorrent too. However, I also have slightly more understanding about the wider picture than you do. You are not helping Jewish people or preventing antisemitism with threads like this. Promoting partisan geopolitical ideologies which are related to land and power, not people, will not lead to peace.

hazelnutvanillalatte · 04/03/2026 16:56

cariadlet · 02/03/2026 18:12

In my FB feed, the people who deny or minimise the sexual violence that was a deliberate part of the October massacres, seem to be the same people who are telling me that most women in Iran are happy to have their hair covered ; that the numbers of protesters shot by the regime have been grossly exaggerated and that the protests were orchestrated by Mossad!

Unbelievable!

The ridiculous and pathetic part of this is that the regimes they're supporting are the POLAR OPPOSITE of the progressive puppies-and-rainbows ideals that these people claim to have. Zero braincells.

IcyPlumShaker · 04/03/2026 16:56

Twiglets1 · 04/03/2026 16:52

That's just one enquiry though.

Legally, the case that South Africa brought before the International Court of Justice in December 2023 (South Africa v Israel) is still ongoing.

No decision has been reached so to say that Israel has committed genocide is your opinion not a legal verdict.

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Semantics, surely?

Ok, so we probably can't say that it's definitely a Genocide.

But, equally, given that the UN Commission have said that they believe it is, surely we can't say that it definitely ISN'T either.

Personally, if my government was pursuing actions that resulted in the UN deliberating whether it was a Genocide or not, I doubt I'd think that was a good place to be...

I like to be even-handed in this. I'm happy to call what Hamas did on October 7th, a terrorist attack, and what Israel has done in Gaza, a genocide.

' Baddies ' on both sides, if you prefer..

HappyFace2025 · 04/03/2026 17:04

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 16:54

Your other post said that you were not Jewish. I do however have Jewish heritage. I find antisemitism abhorrent too. However, I also have slightly more understanding about the wider picture than you do. You are not helping Jewish people or preventing antisemitism with threads like this. Promoting partisan geopolitical ideologies which are related to land and power, not people, will not lead to peace.

Edited
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@LucyWestenra is helping Jewish people like me to cope with the almost constant abuse we get online. Just because you 'have Jewish heritage' (really?) doesn't entitle you to say Lucy 'is not helping Jewish people'. Get over yourself.

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 17:06

hazelnutvanillalatte · 04/03/2026 16:56

The ridiculous and pathetic part of this is that the regimes they're supporting are the POLAR OPPOSITE of the progressive puppies-and-rainbows ideals that these people claim to have. Zero braincells.

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Again some shocking ignorance being commented on here. Yes, many religious Muslim women choose to wear a veil. Just like Jewish orthodox women choose to wear wigs in public according to their traditions.

And if you watch videos of day to day life in Iran you will see that most women do not wear veils and many do not cover their hair. They are now in fear of being bombed, however.

HappyFace2025 · 04/03/2026 17:07

No it is not semantics at all @IcyPlumShaker so stop spreading misinformation. There has been no genocide.

hazelnutvanillalatte · 04/03/2026 17:08

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 17:06

Again some shocking ignorance being commented on here. Yes, many religious Muslim women choose to wear a veil. Just like Jewish orthodox women choose to wear wigs in public according to their traditions.

And if you watch videos of day to day life in Iran you will see that most women do not wear veils and many do not cover their hair. They are now in fear of being bombed, however.

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Experience and reality trump your luxury beliefs.

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 17:08

HappyFace2025 · 04/03/2026 17:04

@LucyWestenra is helping Jewish people like me to cope with the almost constant abuse we get online. Just because you 'have Jewish heritage' (really?) doesn't entitle you to say Lucy 'is not helping Jewish people'. Get over yourself.

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I am glad you feel supported, HappyFace, no one should be receiving abuse online.

I think OP could do that without starting threads like this, though.

OrangeAxolotyl · 04/03/2026 17:10

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 17:06

Again some shocking ignorance being commented on here. Yes, many religious Muslim women choose to wear a veil. Just like Jewish orthodox women choose to wear wigs in public according to their traditions.

And if you watch videos of day to day life in Iran you will see that most women do not wear veils and many do not cover their hair. They are now in fear of being bombed, however.

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BBC News - Iranian women - before and after the revolution
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47032829
I don't know if you trust the BBC, but it's very obvious that women lack civil rights, and yes, their dress is policed.

Two women wearing black chadors look at wedding dresses through glass windows in 1986

Iranian women - before and after the Islamic Revolution

Images show Iranian women pictured before and after the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47032829

magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 17:14

hazelnutvanillalatte · 04/03/2026 17:08

Experience and reality trump your luxury beliefs.

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No not at all. If the other poster had said that there were women all over the world being forced to do things rather than choosing, then I would have agreed. But they didn't, they mocked the idea that anyone could choose to wear modest clothing. They were wrong. Also, my comments were based on real discussions with real Muslim women and real Jewish women, as well as watching footage and interviews and reading personal accounts. So not "luxury beliefs".

Original poster
LucyWestenra · 04/03/2026 17:15

I’m sorry, I didn’t want to start a bun fight.

This thread was to voice my disgust at the Green Party and more importantly to reiterate my support for the Jewish community.

I wish those who act in bad faith would just stay away.

I have enough to deal with, coming to terms with my narcissistic mother (and no, I’m not throwing this term around lightly, I’m in therapy, and private therapy paid for by myself and my husband before anyone accuses me of being a foreigner who is a drain on resources)

Why is this place so toxic?

you wouldn’t allow attacks on Muslims to stand, so why is it ok if it’s Jewish people?

OP posts:
magneticclocks · 04/03/2026 17:20

OrangeAxolotyl · 04/03/2026 17:10

BBC News - Iranian women - before and after the revolution
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-47032829
I don't know if you trust the BBC, but it's very obvious that women lack civil rights, and yes, their dress is policed.

Show quote history

I wasn't talking about this, firstly, I was responding to a poster who said no Muslims want to dress modestly or words to that effect. Secondly there is real life footage posted endlessly from Iran which show women without head scarves walking through streets and markets. I haven't read the article but if it says something different it is probably worth looking at more sources.

Ihatetomatoes · 04/03/2026 17:21

MrThorpeHazell · 03/03/2026 11:49

I wouldn't condemn ANYONE for ANYTHING on the basis of a report in the Daily Mail.
YABU.

Gradually other news outlets are expressing their horror at her comments.

https://www.gbnews.com/politics/green-party-spin-doctor-women-october-seven-attacks

You might not like that news outlet either but doesn't mean she didn't say it.

Green Party spin doctor DENIES women were raped in October 7 attacks

There are now calls for her to be sacked

https://www.gbnews.com/politics/green-party-spin-doctor-women-october-seven-attacks

Twiglets1 · 04/03/2026 17:21

IcyPlumShaker · 04/03/2026 16:56

Semantics, surely?

Ok, so we probably can't say that it's definitely a Genocide.

But, equally, given that the UN Commission have said that they believe it is, surely we can't say that it definitely ISN'T either.

Personally, if my government was pursuing actions that resulted in the UN deliberating whether it was a Genocide or not, I doubt I'd think that was a good place to be...

I like to be even-handed in this. I'm happy to call what Hamas did on October 7th, a terrorist attack, and what Israel has done in Gaza, a genocide.

' Baddies ' on both sides, if you prefer..

Show quote history

I don't think it's semantics to say that there is no legal verdict yet on whether it is a genocide or not.

There is no doubt that what Hamas did on 7/10 was a terrorist attack, they are terrorists according to the UK government and they filmed their own attacks.

However there is doubt about whether Israel's response can legally be classified as genocide or not.