Or are young people becoming increasingly insular/scared/lacking in motivation and drive?

[walkies77]

Sorry, this is going to be long.

Something I've noticed with my own children, and wondering if this is just us or if others have noticed the same. I'm not particularly driven or ambitious myself, but I do think you need to make something of your life and have experiences/pursuits/adventures.

Examples:

• Both kids have given up almost all their hobbies (despite our resistance), including ones they used to really be into.
• An academically able child fought nail and tooth to go to the local college rather than stay in their private school or go to a local grammar school. Now at said college their attendance is really poor and they are scaling down their effort, even talking about pursuing a career in childcare rather than their previous area of interest.
• Same child got an opportunity to go on a school trip to New York and we managed to negotiate a discounted price but in the end they said they didn't want to go.
• They also really didn't want to go on a young people's conference in Spain focusing on a theme that they were very interested in but I insisted and in the end they had a good trip and performed really well.
• Other child has a once-in-a-lifetime school trip to Bali in the summer, which we have been saving for for over a year. Now they don't want to go because they are afraid to go scuba-diving and feel insecure around people.
• Both like to spend most of their free time in their rooms on their devices, letting their rooms become a tip and not doing anything towards schoolwork unless nagged and nagged and often not even then.
• One child is seriously at risk of failing some of their GCSEs but doesn't seem to see it as a serious thing despite endless amounts of constructive conversations, nagging, supportive measures etc etc etc.

Is this a post-Covid/state of the world thing where they perhaps feel so disheartened by the future they just sign off everything? It's a bit daunting when every other day there is a news story of bright Oxbridge graduates struggling to get a job so where does that leave the less driven or able young people?

Or is it an electronic devices thing?

Or what?

I work from home and don't get around much but fantasise of being able to travel the world and see and experience things.

What's happened to young people? AIBU?

Shops, golf clubs, men's clubs. Rough as... and cash in hand. But they'll learn.

I really think parents need to take responsibility for lining these things up for their kids as well.

I know, so true.

We had a holiday last summer with my 70+ mother and while driving through the most breathtaking views in the Yorkshire Dales she kept scrolling through her phone.

But what's wrong with working in childcare? They will be earning a wage and getting work experience. And they are likely to be always employable.

The decision they make at 18, does not define the rest of their life. They might work in childcare for a few years and then decide to go to university or change to a different career. Or maybe they will stay working in childcare as a flexible career with their own family in years to come.
Much better than the seemingly myriad of MN children who go to university just because it's expected, without much idea of what they might want to do afterwards.

And changing your mind about direction between 15 and 18 is really not that unusual. Both my children did so.

On a more helpful note - have a look at TJ Power and The DOSE effect.

He has an app (other irony isnt lost) on finding more natural ways of getting dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin and endorphins to have a life outside of phones.

He did a talk and project at a school im governor at. It seemed to help.

What's wrong with it? The low pay and little by way of intellectual stimulation. My child is very bright and frankly could do better. And they will seriously struggle to set themselves up for life in terms of housing etc.

I only hope they will change their mind. But just as an example if you mess up your A levels and go back to them later, you have to pay. Not everyone has to go to uni, true. There are schemes that don't cost if you're willing to put an effort into getting into one. And you need good grades.

“working in childcare as a flexible career around their own family”

How do you suppose one can afford to raise a family on typical childcare wages? Who should make up the (very large) shortfall?

Or should OP just advise her young daughter to get married to a higher earner and make herself financially dependent on a man and vulnerable in
in the relationship. Because that always turns out so well for women…

You can go to university as a mature student without A Levels.

You can take a degree through the Open University without any qualifications.

Your child's choices at 18 do not define the rest of their life.

Your child is more likely to do well if they are actually self motivated, and it's not just something her parent tells her they should be doing.

My son has not great A Level results (they are lower than most results that MN typically calls "totally disastrous"). He worked in Tesco for nearly a year after leaving sixth form without any clear idea what he wanted to do. He spent most of his non-working hours playing PlayStation sat in his bedroom and only emerging for meals. I was despairing that we would ever do anything "useful" with his life. However, it helped him to realise that he didn't want to work in retail on a minimum wage job. He is now working in IT and studying for a degree via distance learning.

I would have liked him to go to university at 18 and do better in his A Levels, but actually this way round may work out better in the long run.

I'm more on social media than my teens. Oldest is a little bit, 14yo not at all and not interested other than watching youtube.

Well, that's the hope but as you too seem to have found it, it's worrying when it's happening and you don't know how it'll all end.

So what are you going to do?

If that is what they want to do, approaching adulthood, there isn't much you can say unless you lay down the law they they absolutely will work towards a career with a higher salary and do better.

Perhaps not giving them a phone until 16 was a mistake as then they are suddenly like a kid in a toy shop, with much less parental control over their phones, so it is a shiny new thing, they can contact friends, see all the online stuff everyone talks about, and they haven't had previous teenage years to sort out these teething problems where they realised that a lot of what you do online is a waste of time and contributes zilch to your future life.

Perhaps the pressure of uni and graduate jobs and debt just doesn't appeal right now, perhaps they have looked at work that might interest them that robots won't replace, perhaps they think they could make a difference within childcare and want to learn from the ground up.

Open up a conversation with them where you listen, not instruct, and try and push them towards doing childcare certificates at college so they get qualifications and experience if that is what they want to do. Nudging them towards solutions or at least next step progress might be more effective than expressing that you find their current choices a disappointment.

When my son was young ( he’s now in his 30s) he had dyslexia dyspraxia and mild autism
he was very much of the not wanting to to do anything
I basically had a 3 times rule - you go to xxx activity 3 times - if after that you don’t like it you don’t have to go again

I did this with everything from holiday clubs when on holiday to sports clubs and scouts boys brigade after school clubs

pretty much everything had the 3 times rule
i massively oversocialised him as I knew he would struggle with social stuff due to autism even though it’s pretty mild

if he moaned he was told that while he lived in my house it’s not a democracy 😂

he stuck everything out - made loads of friends through doing this and is a well grounded adult now

even with learning to drive ( he passed on his 4th attempt ) I just said keep at it your 90 percent there

He’s bought a house with his partner
and he’s incredibly house proud
something I never would have thought possible due to the state of his bedroom in his teens 😂

Kevin & Perry had nothing on him

DC1 was the absolute opposite of this. Tbey took absolutely every opportunity that came their way.

DC2 is very very anxious and also loves technology. They also spent a lot of time in their bedroom. However even DC2 wants to do well academically and did carry on with their main sporting hobby until Covid struck. DC2 is at university now and doing very well.

So yes, I think spending most free time online instead of out and about could potentially make the idea of going abroad very anxiety-provoking.

Covid has also had a terrible impact on children. OP yours are obviously younger than mine and I suspect would have been impacted more.

Not sure what you can do but maybe start with some simple and fun family activities eg board game night, family badminton or ping pong match.

Sorry but I don't like your attitude and you know nothing about me or how I deal with my child IRL so I won't engage with this further.

Fuckin SCREENS . We were on this downward spiral BEFORE covid or Brexit.
The 7yr old IS going to their clubs whether they want to or not. The 7yr old IS going to school, whether thwy want to or not. The 7yr old will have her tablet switched off after 1hr, whether they want to, or not.
We have to take some responsibility, as the parent for some, not all, of these behaviours.

Great, then I really wouldn’t worry about them.

That's great at 7, but not so possible at 16+
(Why does the 7 year old even have a tablet?)

My children aren't like this OP. I wonder if it's because you don't go abroad a lot as a family? We do and my children have always been happy to go away on school trips and now they are older on their own/with friends.

They also had part time jobs from 6th form onwards which perhaps gives them more confidence to get out and about. (although we live in London and they do travel a lot from a young age).

However I do think anxiety is a thing amongst this generation - my children do suffer varying degrees.

Several jobs but have included: Working at Quality Save, being football referees through the FA, cleaning airbnbs (with my friend), working in a cafe pot washing, babysitting (from 15). They also have sold stuff for my friends on vinted and split the money.

This isn’t my experience.

My dtds are struggling with maths gcse so have just started going to additional tutoring (their request).

dd3 (age 14 and in year 10) does 4 dance classes a week and a drama club. In February she performed in Panto and has dance competitions later this month and in May. She plans to do 6th form at a college an hour away by train for a specific course.

dd2 (same age twin) does army cadets twice a week plus weekend camps/training, plus the same drama as her sister and Panto performance. Plans to do alevels and uni.

Both are going to Italy skiing in a few weeks.

dd1 is 18 and doing alevels. She stopped horse riding at 15 and is less into clubs but ambitious at school, planning uni and has booked a summer holiday with friends for after exams. She has had a job since 15 and has an interview this week for a new job for weekends/evenings - completely self motivated to apply.

nothing outstanding but what I’d call normal.

Yes I agree . The biggest mistake we made was letting our 16 year old buy a pc. Due to this on top of covid restrictions and being stuck in his room we had 4 years of him gaming and practically living in his room. . He dropped out of a levels ,even though started iff getting A grades restarted them and scraped through last summer. He is now at uni ( his choice , his debt] but not sure he will finish the degree. He die not have the pc there and says he he working hard. I hope so.....

I agree with the OP, I have seen this with my own DC. My friend says the same about her DD too. When I was doing my GCSEs & A Levels I wanted to do the very best I could. My DS is content just getting what is needed, no extra effort.

He wants to go to uni but says he will live at home and commute. I couldn’t wait to get away and it was my main motivation when doing A Levels. I’m baffled by his lack of adventure and find it a bit sad. He’s not bothered about travelling or experiencing new things. In the last 2 years only been out with friends a few times.

He doesn’t have a job and although he says he wants one, no real effort has been made to get one. His school & sixth form don’t do work experience placements, so he has no experience at all.

Money doesn’t motivate him, he doesn’t even get pocket money as never asked for it. Never asks for clothes, I get him new things when I see he needs them. He would wear clothes with holes in if I let him!

We encouraged him to go on the sixth form trip abroad for 1 week and he had a good time I think. But he didn’t ask to go and wouldn’t have been bothered if he didn’t.

He’s having driving lessons, these were arranged by my DH when he turned 17. Again, he didn’t ask for them and if we stopped them he probably wouldn’t be bothered.

There just doesn’t seem to be that zest for life, motivation and excitement to do things that a (nearly) 18 year old should have. I feel like we’ve failed him somehow as it must be our fault. But I’ve heard similar from other parents too so could be a generational thing. I suppose they have the ‘whole world’ in their phones so don’t think they are missing anything.

Before anyone mentions depression, he’s not. He’s happy and I can hear him talking to his friends when gaming. He just genuinely seems content with his life.

My DD has her moments of drive. They do wane every 6 months or so where we get a melt down - have a week off then good to go again.
In the whole larger term....From what my 16yr old tells me from her view is that the world is depressing and scary AF right now. Things are changing so fast that you cannot really look far in the future.
They likely wont have a job they like/can live off of.
We are barreling into wars and unheaval, and have been for years.
The biggots, racists and evil people in the world are either increasing - or just being made more visible - and its not good when you see how many of them are people you know (school is really bad for the Andrew Tate type boys, and a lot of really racist kids as well - the irony being those are a lot of the refugees that came over from that war Russia started).

DD has chosen to study the social sciences at Higher level and so she cant ignore all of this going on in the world - some times I think that ignorance would be bliss, but I have to hope that seeing all this will make her primed for whats to come.
The world wasn't perfect in the 90s when I was a teen.....but our exposure to bad things was less intense.

All of this.

We, too, offered our eldest driving lessons but they haven't taken up on those.

Genuinely finding this discussion really interesting because in my wider circle of friends/family/my children’s friends we’re all still insanely busy ferrying kids to hobbies/sports fixtures/gymnastics competitions/swimming competitions/facilitating social lives etc.

I think it's school, it's knackering and stressful. I had a phase 30 odd years ago during GCSEs of doing nothing outside school, and I used to get up at midday and plan my TV viewing for the day during school holidays. At sixth form college and university I picked up a few hobbies again. Mostly drinking and kissing boys but some other more sporty and wholesome activities also 😅