Or are young people becoming increasingly insular/scared/lacking in motivation and drive?

[walkies77]

Sorry, this is going to be long.

Something I've noticed with my own children, and wondering if this is just us or if others have noticed the same. I'm not particularly driven or ambitious myself, but I do think you need to make something of your life and have experiences/pursuits/adventures.

Examples:

• Both kids have given up almost all their hobbies (despite our resistance), including ones they used to really be into.
• An academically able child fought nail and tooth to go to the local college rather than stay in their private school or go to a local grammar school. Now at said college their attendance is really poor and they are scaling down their effort, even talking about pursuing a career in childcare rather than their previous area of interest.
• Same child got an opportunity to go on a school trip to New York and we managed to negotiate a discounted price but in the end they said they didn't want to go.
• They also really didn't want to go on a young people's conference in Spain focusing on a theme that they were very interested in but I insisted and in the end they had a good trip and performed really well.
• Other child has a once-in-a-lifetime school trip to Bali in the summer, which we have been saving for for over a year. Now they don't want to go because they are afraid to go scuba-diving and feel insecure around people.
• Both like to spend most of their free time in their rooms on their devices, letting their rooms become a tip and not doing anything towards schoolwork unless nagged and nagged and often not even then.
• One child is seriously at risk of failing some of their GCSEs but doesn't seem to see it as a serious thing despite endless amounts of constructive conversations, nagging, supportive measures etc etc etc.

Is this a post-Covid/state of the world thing where they perhaps feel so disheartened by the future they just sign off everything? It's a bit daunting when every other day there is a news story of bright Oxbridge graduates struggling to get a job so where does that leave the less driven or able young people?

Or is it an electronic devices thing?

Or what?

I work from home and don't get around much but fantasise of being able to travel the world and see and experience things.

What's happened to young people? AIBU?

I hate the phrase setting boundaries, but I'll go with it for one post only...

The thing with this concept is it only makes sense once you actually know what your boundaries, limitations and interests are. Now, in my forties, I am able to resist signing up to a lot of stuff, because I know from experience that I hate routine and will never, for example, stick long term to going to regular choir practice. When I was younger I was always up for anything, then would get bored and give up after a while.

I do know, though, that I love a one-off thing, like being in an am dram production.

My point is, yes it's good to set boundaries, but not preemptively before you even know what you like doing. It's taken me decades to work it out, and I've experienced loads of things in that time. Young people seem to let the little bit of anxiousness you naturally feel when you try something new take over their entire being.

We have to stop blaming Covid for our parenting fails. Allowing constant screen use is what is damaging children, not the few weeks off school 6 years ago!

In addition to this the current trend for giving children too much autonomy, lack of expectation, lack of boundaries and not holding them accountable for their behaviour is producing a generation of children with mental health issues.

They are terrified. They are crying out for the adults to take charge, to tell them what to do and to and tell them no!

I don’t recognise this in my dc or of their friendship groups.

However my DC are in elite sports and most of their peers are highly driven and motivated young people.

DS1 (19) plays sport at elite level, does a F/T apprenticeship and attends university night school studying Engineering.

DS2 (16) plays elite level (county and country) sports and is F/T apprenticeship studying IT.

There time tables are a logistical nightmare and causes me and my husband a great deal of stress, it’s got better as ds1 drives and ds2 will drive as soon as possible when he turns 17.

My sisters children, who I love to death however have no ambition or self drive to better their careers/lives. DN1 (22) is a admin assistant on NMW and DN2 (18) has never worked having dropped out of education at 16 as “she couldn’t be bothered”

I think it's lack of motivation altogether.
I'm 46 and feel like this, especially about scuba diving. 😐
About others, I don't give a crap.
At the age of your kids, it's probably too early to feel that way.
🙁

But not ALL teenagers are like this. Mine go out all the time (aged 17 & 19, one in yr 13, one at uni) and they have both had jobs since they were 16. Both learnt to drive as soon as they could and bought their own cars, are always out and about, go clubbing and to pubs and go on holiday / foreign weekends away with their friends. So I think there is an element of personality- I am the sort of person who is always doing stuff and I think it rubs off, they get very bored staying in. They do use their phones a lot but still have normal friendships like we did in the 90s. It’s not all doom and gloom.

Exactly. It’s all such a worry.

a 15 year old family member of mine no longer goes to school. Hasn’t for the last two years. She has a need to be in control and doesn’t get on well sitting in a class room. She spends her days in the bedroom. The specialists and her close family members have said education comes second to mental health. They are working hard with her to manage it but ultimately after two years they haven’t managed to get her out her room. The advice from specialists is that she will come round in her own time. Not to force social interactions. And worryingly don’t punish her. Ie don’t remove her phone. So the outcome to all that is teaching a 15 year old she can make the decision on whether she wants to attend school or not and if she doesn’t want to go she can stay in her bedroom all day on her phone or online. This is at specialist advice too! It’s all so concerning! People are treating certain good things (education or social interactions) as if they are mutually exclusive to mental health. There is no due regard to the surely worsened situation of letting this fester with no resolve. No appreciation for the fact that the resulting consequences of all this are surely worse than the initial unpleasantness of coming outside of the comfort zone!

the pendulum has definitely swung the other way! And parents can only go with the advice being given.

Childcare - it's not about ambition, it's about making some sort of living. It'll be very, very hard to do so on a childcare worker's salary.

The biggest error I ever made was allowing my ds to have an xbox (when he was 14). I wish I hadn't. I think his life would have been different, although covid and Brexshit would have still happened and ruined a lot of opportunities for him.

He has done other things, played sport at a high level, got his degree and Masters etc, but I feel sure he would have been out and about a lot more if he'd not been gaming.

In addition to this the current trend for giving children too much autonomy, lack of expectation, lack of boundaries and not holding them accountable for their behaviour is producing a generation of children with mental health issues.

I agree with this, but I feel my eldest is now blaming me for having been too strict and is now letting go of all restraints. And post-16 kids can pretty much do what they like, as I've learned.

Who's employing children so readily round your way? Please enlighten us, as round our way companies won't touch them with a barge pole here due to H&S, insurance and safeguarding.

Some people will do things like... Pay them to cut the grass or whatever. But not regular employment as such.

Only if they have money, which he must be getting from you if he doesn't have a job?

I also feel young people are very aware of their rights now - less so of obligations/responsibilities.

I agree with this ^

and I don't think this is a young person thing. I think it is a your children thing.

I'm not just speaking anecdotally about my own dc and extended family and friends, I volunteer with young people and see huge amounts of motivation and drive.

I also agree with the value of getting out and getting a job. It brings huge benefits.

Yes, but I can't disclose all the circumstances here. It's not from me.

The way some people on MN pretend that the purpose of work is not primarily to make a living and earn enough to have a semi-comfortable life is ridiculous. There was a thread recently where a poster was bemoaning the fact her very-high-calibre-graduate daughter couldn’t get a job ‘related to her degree’ at some museum paying £25k or so with very limited progression. When several posters commented that she could walk into a graduate scheme in Finance, Tech, Law or Civil Service with her credentials, it was all “but I want DD to be happy”, as if grinding poverty and watching your friends accelerate past you in their careers and financial accomplishments is a recipe for happiness. 😑

Tricky. Anyway, I sympathise, I have a nephew in his early 20s with similar issues. I try to get him out of his very small world, but he always finds some excuse. I do think it's a lot to do with personality types, because his mother (my sister) is similar, but the devices both exacerbate the problem and enable them to indulge their fears by distracting them.

Yup. No oomph. No interest in travel. No imagination. Scared of everything. Very sad and worrying. That’s based on the few young people I know. The whole ND headphone wearing thing drives me bonkers. I was stealing cider and get the Magic bus to Paris and Amsterdam at their age. Made me the psycho bitch I am today. 😜

Yeah,I think that's a good point. There's definitely some areas where you should be testing your boundaries or even ignoring them entirely when you're young!

The point i was making is that young people are told there are no graduate jobs, so wont get a job at all if they do a degree or only a low paid job they could have got anyway, are told all the office jobs and creative jobs will go to AI so wont exist, but if they find a job that doesnt need a degree and wont go to AI - it doesnt pay enough so they still arent getting it right. Its quite a lot of doom thrown at them.

I wasnt suggesting for a second that the purpose of work isnt to get money or they should pursue chikdcare to make themselves happy, but suggesting they are getting a lot of messages all over social media and the press that the traditional education and graduate role path is more or less over and the reality of the apprentiship route is quite often low paid. Id feel demotivated too.

Yeah, unfortunately I think a lot of kids tend to drop hobbies when they get to their teens. For some things especially sport it becomes less fun and more competitive, it can slowly dawn on you that you don't shine in that area compared to other people who stand out, and that's hard on a teenager's self-esteem.

I recognise a bit of what OP is talking about. I think it comes down to self-confidence and having the ability to try things out and realise with each little boost to your cofidence that actually you DO have something to offer the world, you DO have a place and you'll be able to support yourself financially and live independently eventually. So many entry level jobs which led to something else have gone. It's hard for teenagers to know what careers exist, and how to get an "in" when you dont' have any experience.

I tried to get my youngest to get a job during A-levels. He had the time. But he didn't do it, didn't seem to have the confidence, and he just used birthday and Christmas money if he wanted to go out, or DH felt sorry for him and gave him some money. Eldest is more driven and much more proactive.

It's hard not to worry, but I think sometimes our worry and expectations can rub off on them and exacerbate their anxiety and low self-esteem. Social media and doom scrolling mean that they don't have the experiene of ignorance being bliss.

And it's not just about the money either. My intelligent, high performing child went from wanting to work in the environmental sector and choosing their A-levels on that basis to suddenly dropping everything and talking about working in childcare. It's depressing.

I'm surprised that your relative's parents are tolerating this.

I think this is the downside of not letting them have a phone until they were 16.

At 11 you can be pretty strict with screen time and insisting on monitoring phone use regularly. At 16, it's much harder to impose parental rules and your child will want to spend all their time with their new "toy" rather than getting a lot of it out their system at a much earlier age.

No matter what you do, it's always wrong. Giving them a phone at an early age = you're to blame. Waiting until they're older - you're to blame.

OK.

Really? How many people, of any age, do you know who have got bored of their phones like they would a toy, bike, car etc? They are fundamentally different. They never get boring, that's the whole point, and why they are dangerous.

My 77 year old mum is as addicted to her ipad as any teenager I know.