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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

BIL suggested I never pay enough.

182 replies

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 16:23

I recently got divorced and am really struggling what to make of life going forward, there just doesn't seem to be much point any more.

Of late, I've been trying to make sense of some of the things that we argued about so I'll give you one of the lighter discussions that was never fully put to bed... What would you have done?

To give you some context, I had to leave my family home where I grew up abruptly, my younger brother who has issues with drugs, came at me and not for the first time with a carving knife and my parents just watched. I had to move out for my own safety and I did so without a penny to my name and quickly got into debt as you can imagine.

I'm not looking for sympathy at all, this is just to give you some context for the next part of the story. This start in life has always made me feel that I needed to make sure that I had enough money, that I paid my way and it would often mean that if we were going out that I'd be the first to buy everyone a drink, even if I didn't have the money right away (credit card). I didn't want anyone to think I was a sponger.

Now for the next part of the story....

Quite a few years later, I got married to the woman of my dreams. Beautiful, funny, sharing lots of the same interests but above all she was kind, like I had never seen before.

Her sister and BIL had a small house in France that they visited every year and we were often invited to go and stay 'for a cheap week, just pay for the flight'. Of course it wasn't just paying for the flight, you're family and you want to chip in where possible, why should we cost them to look after us? So we would pay money into SIL's account before the holiday for groceries, we'd paid for thanks of petrol, additional grocery bills, the odd meal out as a thank you and drinks etc. Because it always feels like they're doing you a favour, you can never really feel grateful enough. It wasn't ever a cheap holiday and we couldv'e one cheaper elsewhere but it wasn't about that, it was quality time spent away with the family.

Anyway... one evening we were out at a restaurant, myself, my wife and my BIL and SIL. The evening went fine and we were all having a good time as far as I could see. We finished our meal and both myself and my BIL went up to the bar area to pay the bill. We'd generally split it between the couples. I always like to leave at least the recommended tip but I know everyone is different. I asked the waitress if we could add the tip onto the card payment but unfortunately they don't allow it for some reason as is the way in a lot of European countries, so we had to pay cash.

I rarely carry cash (I should've remembered to take some) and so I asked if my BIL could pay the tip and I'm sort him out later as I always would. He said fine and paid the tip in cash (€10) and I said thank you. He then said and I quote " Any time you want to pay the full price, rather than the special price you often get, let me know".

I didn't know what to say so I just smiled a bit and said "ok thanks".

When we got back to our room that night, I told my wife about it. She looked quite upset and said "that doesn't sound like something he'd say but I'll handle it" and we obviously discussed a bit about recent and past bills and reassured ourselves that we always pay our way and that nothing was owed.

Two years passed. Over that time it had been needling away in the back of my mind and a few times I mentioned it to my wife to ask if she'd approached the subject with her BIL and SIL yet. It mattered to me because he seemed that he thought he was having to sub me all the time and I hated that because of my childhood and the fact that I absolutely always pay my way. During those two years, I was absolutely sure that we always paid our wy or more but it was a mental drain always thiking that they thought we were spongers no matter what. After the two years, it came to a head as we'd been invited to go to France again and all of the memories came flooding back. I asked my wife outright to tackle it as I waited patiently for two years. Reluctantly she agreed.

I don't know what she said to him but he first said to her "oh yes I remember that conversation and I'd negotiated a discount on the bill (he spoke French). That absolutely didn't happen, only me and and my BIL were present and we spoke in English and there was no discount. So I contacted him via text and said that didn't happen. He then replied "I don't what I did yesterday mate let alone two years ago, you should've come to me earlier" Coming to him earlier was a fair point and I'd wanted to but I was respecting my wife's wishes that she wanted to handle it. The point however was that now his story had changed.

Then my SIL waded in, "I'm sorry but that's not what was said" (she's telling me that my story isn't true). Neither my wife nor my SIL was present to witness the conversation, only myself and my BIL.

Then things got a lot worse. My wife started to gaslight me, she started to say that the story I was now telling was different to the one I told her two years ago. She started to repeat the story that my BIL was now telling that he'd allegedly negotiated a discount in French and she started to say "I sometimes forget what actually happened and get carried away". I remember what happened like it was yesterday and I thought about it constantly, my wife presumably never thought about it because it didn't bother her so my memories are not cloudy.

After my SIL said "I'm sorry but that's not what was said", she never spoke to me again. I'd known her for over 15 years. To date, my wife has never waivered on the fact that BIL was innocent of what he said and that I must have lied, despite never having lied to her in the past.

I gave possible explanations for him, he may have been a bit drunk, SIL may not have made him aware or may have forgotten that we used to pay in for groceries etc as she handling the finances and he was known for having his head in the clouds sometimes.

When I eventually realised that full grown, seemingly sane adults weren't going to ever give in to their pride. I said "Ok, we both have different recollections of what happened that day but this is not something worth wrecking relationships over so let's just shake hands and call it a day" They never spoke to me again.

I've always been of the opinion that you should treat people how you'd like to be treated and if a friend or family member has caused upset you should talk about ir or if you're in the wrong, listen, understand and apologise.

What are you thoughts, what would you have done? AIBU?

Sorry that turned into a long one, phew!

OP posts:
Insidesains · 28/02/2026 19:15

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 18:01

I can send you the legal documents but the £300k happened. These are the issues that I had to just accept, that's why it ended.

Have you received this legal documents yet @Tontostitis ?

Trillie · 28/02/2026 19:17

It’s a natural reaction when you are grieving to go over things, and you are grieving. I’d advise some short term therapy, this is a temporary mind set, not a permanent state of affairs, you will feel better.

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 19:18

CamillaMcCauley · 28/02/2026 18:46

If you were struggling for funds and you had an untapped resource worth £300K plus sitting around, why didn’t you publish them online yourself?

The way you’ve pitched both problems it seems pretty clear that you believe your wife and BIL caused your marriage problems and you’ve done nothing wrong.

So why are you posting to “try to figure out whether you’re in the wrong”? Is there information you’re leaving out that might shed a different light? It’s hard to believe someone would be agonizing over these situations if they are as straightforward as you’ve set them out.

I didn't have the legal right to pubish them alone, 'the works' represent a collection of other people's works as well. What I was claiming for was my portion alone.

I'm trying to figure it out because I've spent my whole life being gaslit by people. Logically it all makes sense to me but if the person you love tells you you're wrong it hurts. You start to doubt your own memories and feelings and that is abuse although I don't think she ever intended that, she just wanted to hide from doing the right thing.

OP posts:
Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 19:23

BlackCatsForever · 28/02/2026 16:51

I get it,OP - it may seem like a little thing but it’s more than just a restaurant bill - it’s the injustice, isn’t it; being accused of something you didn’t do. You just want somebody to acknowledge it, otherwise you start to feel like you’re going mad. Plus when you’re in a bad place mentally eg due to a breakup it’s all too to ruminate on seemingly minor things.

Unfortunately they are not going to acknowledge it so you will need to find a way to make peace with it somehow. Maybe counselling would help you come to terms with your divorce?

Also just a heads up, it would probably have been better to post this in Relationships as AIBU often seems to attract the kind of posters who will make you feel worse about yourself.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

OP posts:
youalright · 28/02/2026 19:24

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 19:00

I didn't have the £300k ever so I haven't lost it. I had something worth £300k which was my copyright. It's like copying an musician's music and selling it yourself... It's stealing but on a massive scale.

It was incredibly hard to let it go but it was that or lose everythng.

Was this a business idea you believe to be worth 300k

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 19:28

Ponoka7 · 28/02/2026 16:53

Did you go to the Police etc? You need I.D checks, not just a signature.

No, he started selling them with Apple online. I found out and asked Apple to take them down, Apple produced the forged document. The police don't get involved in anything like this, it has to be a private prosecution and self funded as it's too complicated and expensive for them.

OP posts:
SardinesOnButteredToast · 28/02/2026 19:28

I can understand your reaction and response to this and I disrespect everyone who was avoidant or just plain gaslighting liars in this story. I can't bear a liar. Nothing worse for me.

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 19:29

youalright · 28/02/2026 19:24

Was this a business idea you believe to be worth 300k

No the product existed and the quantity worth that much in royalties had been sold.

OP posts:
Randomuser2026 · 28/02/2026 19:30

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 17:00

@Getofftheunicorn I am trying to make sense of what I could have done wrong so that it doesn't happen again. If she was upset by something or someone, I'd always listen to her and try and help, isn't that what you do? Or is best just to pretend someone's feelings don't matter because it's easier on you?

This was the lightest example. Her ex-friend also forged my signature in order to steal £300k from me, I had to let it go because it was easier on her. She tried to tell me he was also kind.

No, you can still go to the police about this.

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 19:33

VoltaireMittyDream · 28/02/2026 17:08

So part of the problem here is that OP assumed, for some reason, that they had to do exactly whatever then wife said rather than using their own noggin.

Ex-wife not respecting their feelings might be the least of OP’s problems.

Not at all... 'calling someone out' often causes trouble, I spoke to my wife about it first to get her opinion on it, that's respect. She asked me to leave it as she would deal with it, why didn't she?

OP posts:
Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 19:33

Randomuser2026 · 28/02/2026 19:30

No, you can still go to the police about this.

I promise you they're 100% not interested as it's the first thing I tried.

OP posts:
youalright · 28/02/2026 19:34

Forgery is a serious criminal offense its not civil why wouldn't you go to the police

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 19:44

Notsosweetcaroline · 28/02/2026 16:56

You want cheap holidays, self cater and someone stole 300k by doing nothing more than forging your signature and your wife said yeah bit if hassle to deal with it, let’s just let her keep it.

sure.

You don't have to believe me, I just came here to get opinions on what people would do in a certain situation. Unbelievable things happen and the more horrific, the worse it is on the victim. Random people doubting facts is just downright mean.

OP posts:
Triskels · 28/02/2026 19:44

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 19:33

Not at all... 'calling someone out' often causes trouble, I spoke to my wife about it first to get her opinion on it, that's respect. She asked me to leave it as she would deal with it, why didn't she?

But you’re divorced! Why are you ruminating about what someone you will, presumably, never see again, as your ex-wife’s brother, may or may not have meant? You have the weirdest set of priorities! You seem to feel your ex-wife is somehow responsible for you not having someone prosecuted for forging your signature, or not dealing with a random comment at the time? You keep talking about how you ‘had’ to do things. Those were choices, OP. Have some therapy.

TalulahJP · 28/02/2026 19:46

did you by any chance give your wife money to give to her sister for the holiday? the wife that didn’t work and presumably therefore had no money? as i’d suggest you gave her say £200 to pass on snd she skimmed £120 and gave her sister £80 saying “thats all we can afford”….

hence you think you paid fairly and they thibk you didnt and the one masterminding this fraudulent scheme is your them wife. who subsequently went on to defraud you of £300k

id have been at the police and then my lawyer about the £300k. Is it too late now? can you take back permission now if it’s still earning money?

Insidesains · 28/02/2026 19:47

Do you have any friends in RL can you talk to?

Uticary · 28/02/2026 19:48

Honestly OP, you married a woman whose sister was more important than you.
Accepting a free holiday that wasn't free was a mistake.

Be glad the marriage is over.
Get some therapy to help you let this go.
It will cost you your health if you don't.
I hope there aren't any children and you can have a clear break.

CamillaMcCauley · 28/02/2026 20:28

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 19:29

No the product existed and the quantity worth that much in royalties had been sold.

Am I right in understanding that you believe you are owed £300k in publishing royalties for your work?

As a former magazine editor and published author, that is an extraordinarily high amount of royalties. Over what period was that accumulated? Your work must be very well known?

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 21:18

CamillaMcCauley · 28/02/2026 20:28

Am I right in understanding that you believe you are owed £300k in publishing royalties for your work?

As a former magazine editor and published author, that is an extraordinarily high amount of royalties. Over what period was that accumulated? Your work must be very well known?

It was an entire back catalogue of 100s of issues that don't date. He took the lot.

OP posts:
Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 21:19

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 21:18

It was an entire back catalogue of 100s of issues that don't date. He took the lot.

HMRC have now forced him into bankruptcy which is some kind of karma.

OP posts:
Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 21:22

youalright · 28/02/2026 19:34

Forgery is a serious criminal offense its not civil why wouldn't you go to the police

I promise you they're 100% not interested as it's the first thing I tried.

OP posts:
Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 21:26

TalulahJP · 28/02/2026 19:46

did you by any chance give your wife money to give to her sister for the holiday? the wife that didn’t work and presumably therefore had no money? as i’d suggest you gave her say £200 to pass on snd she skimmed £120 and gave her sister £80 saying “thats all we can afford”….

hence you think you paid fairly and they thibk you didnt and the one masterminding this fraudulent scheme is your them wife. who subsequently went on to defraud you of £300k

id have been at the police and then my lawyer about the £300k. Is it too late now? can you take back permission now if it’s still earning money?

No I honestly don't think she'd have done that, the BIL is just a bit of a d**k at times and she struggles to stand up when something is wrong.

I'm trying to move on from old issues in terms of tacking historic legal battles. This divorce is recent and the ast issues form part of pattern, that's why I'm still talking about. Thank you for your comments, I do appreciate it.

OP posts:
CamillaMcCauley · 28/02/2026 21:42

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 21:18

It was an entire back catalogue of 100s of issues that don't date. He took the lot.

Sorry, don’t buy it. Your design royalties, which were only a small share of the publishing rights were worth £300k? Unless the publisher was earning many millions of dollars from the publication of these magazines, there’s no way that adds up.

And if your ex-friend was earning that much, there’s no way your wife felt sorry for him and wanted to let him off lightly.

I’m also not sure how you managed to turn over all the content to him for publication without him having signed a proper agreement. Unless he was a co-owner of the copyright and held the content already?

Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 22:03

CamillaMcCauley · 28/02/2026 21:42

Sorry, don’t buy it. Your design royalties, which were only a small share of the publishing rights were worth £300k? Unless the publisher was earning many millions of dollars from the publication of these magazines, there’s no way that adds up.

And if your ex-friend was earning that much, there’s no way your wife felt sorry for him and wanted to let him off lightly.

I’m also not sure how you managed to turn over all the content to him for publication without him having signed a proper agreement. Unless he was a co-owner of the copyright and held the content already?

Ok whether you buy it or not, I really don't care. A large part of my post was about gaslighting, with respect you don't have all of the details you need to judge. Every deal is different as you know, our part in the publication represented a percentage of the value of each publication, that's how the final figure was calculated. It's also worth mentioning that he stole the copyright, this wasn't an amicable deal, so by rights the settlement should have also included a fine. If prosecuted, he would also have faced up to ten years in prison. We weren't the only people he defrauded, it's a long list.

I'd also like to add that nearly 75% of all suicides are male. Why is that? I came here for a view on a relatively small topic that represented part of a much bigger issue. I mentioned the small topic because I thought that topics such as this would be a lot harder for people to understand especially if not in the industry.

My post is about gaslighting, fairness and treating people with a basic social decency.

OP posts:
Peoplearesoweird · 28/02/2026 22:09

CamillaMcCauley · 28/02/2026 21:42

Sorry, don’t buy it. Your design royalties, which were only a small share of the publishing rights were worth £300k? Unless the publisher was earning many millions of dollars from the publication of these magazines, there’s no way that adds up.

And if your ex-friend was earning that much, there’s no way your wife felt sorry for him and wanted to let him off lightly.

I’m also not sure how you managed to turn over all the content to him for publication without him having signed a proper agreement. Unless he was a co-owner of the copyright and held the content already?

Actually I don't think I said design royalties anywhere did I? Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

OP posts:
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