Struggling with response to friend re circumcision

[cultureclash]

A close friend of mine gave birth a week ago and she messaged me yesterday to tell me that her son has just been circumcised with crying faces and that she is an emotional wreck. I was shocked at this as it’s not something we have ever spoke about before so I enquired as to is her son ok and did he have some medical issues and she said no, cultural reasons. I kept the responses short and factual but Aibu that I struggled to show any compassion or empathy for her that she has just paid over £200 to have bits chopped off her precious newborn baby and she is more upset for herself than the pain that she has just put her newborn infant through. I am suprised at how strongly I have reacted to this, I just cannot imagine doing this to my baby. Aibu to feel like this? I obviously would never voice my opinions to her and cause upset but I am struggling with my own emotions around this.

Stop overreacting, if carried out in hospital on a newborn it is done by a small elastic band that falls off about the same time as the belly button cord, my son had this for a medical reason, it took less than two minutes and he slept through the whole thing.

Well I’m no expert, but I don’t think removing a foreskin is comparable to removing the clitoris and sewing the sides together to leave a single “hole” as I understand it. Neither are justified, but self-evidently the damage and risks of the latter greatly outweigh the former.

fwiw my DH is Muslim and we considered circumcising DS, but didn’t. I was dead against it, DH was worried about how his friends and family would react, e.g. “he’ll feel strange if we all go swimming”. Then DS arrived early and spent a week in SCBU - I think I might have murdered DH if he had suggested circumcising my fragile newborn, so he (wisely) left it. As it happens, DS has problems with his foreskin retracting and despite trying various steroid creams, it is so far refusing to budge. It’s a much bigger deal at age 10 than it is for a newborn, and in some ways it would have been easier if I’d just got it over with.

Unless for medical reason, this is barbaric, bloody cruel, poor little baby.

@Vinvertebrate I don’t think removing a foreskin is comparable to removing the clitoris and sewing the sides together to leave a single “hole” as I understand it.

That's one form of FGM. There are many different types of FGM, some of which are not as severe as cutting off the foreskin.

This type of conversation always confuses me because the point is that no type of cutting should be considered acceptable in girls. So why are boys not held to this same standard?

My husband is white non-religious American and circumcised. It is pretty standard to do that there and he sees no reason not and thinks foreskins are dirty. He is obviously correct that more cleaning is required, plus circumcised men are less likely to contract certain STDs. I am therefore in two minds about it. It's a procedure the baby will never remember but I also don't agree with ear piercing young babies so would feel a hypocrite saying one is ok but the other not.

As I said up thread, some forms of FGM only involve removing the clitoral hood. So pretty comparable.

And it's a bit silly to say you should have cut a piece off your child, causing definite harm, just in case something goes wrong later. For most boys, their foreskins will be fine. Hopefully your son's will be too, with the steroid cream. As it is, because he's older, depending on the issue (phimosis?), total circumcision won't be necessary, and a much more minor partial circumcision might relieve the issue if medication doesn't.

There is absolutely no comparison between the two. I recommend you do some more research on the subject. I am not suggesting that I agree with male circumcision but the long term medical impacts are so different and catastrophic for girls in a way that it isn't for boys. In fact there are well documented health benefits from circumcision.

No culture or belief should mean mutilating a childs body.

Religion is used as an excuse for far too much.

What definitely harm results from circumcision?

If we cut off babies' labia minora, vulvas would need less cleaning and likely be less prone to micro-abrasions that increase the risk of STIs too.

So your argument in favour of circumcision seems to depend on the notion that Americans are dirty, unwashed louts, who refuse to use condoms? Hm. Or, you know, people could just take a few seconds longer to wash properly. And they should be using condoms anyway, to protect from STIs.

Not to mention, circumcisions on babies do come with a complication rate of up to 5%, which can include serious damage, total penile amputation, or death. Why opt for those risks when you don't have to?

Pain, the risk of infection and other complications, and genital mutilation.

I thought all Jews and Muslims are circumcised.

Jewish boys and Muslim boys.

Aren't Jewish boys done just before their bar mitzbah, sorry if I spelt that wrong?
And muslim boys are circumcised upto 7 days after birth

I'm wondering this too and I do agree if the friend was coerced then she needs compassion not judgement, but either way whoever is behind the decision ought to be ashamed of themselves. Genital mutilation of either sex should be a thing of the past by now.

Sometimes even sewing the labia up and the vulva itself. Terrible.

No, not all. There are progressive groups in both religions that do not agree with it and do not practice it. My ex dh was Jewish and did not agree with it.

It’s not as extreme as a lot of FGM, but it’s genital mutilation alright. I disagree with @Dbank that we can’t talk about it in t(e U.K. due to ‘cultural sensitivity’. We do talk about FGM. We do act to try and prevent it. There’s no reason we can’t do the same for circumcision.

Its done to stop them experiencing clitoris orgasms and from getting horny/wet/turned on. Ridiculous really.
Its not a religious thing. It's a backwards, barbaric cultural thing.
Also sewing up the inner labia to prevent sex until marriage. I mean, what do they do on wedding day do they lie the bride down and have the vile village elders cut open the stitches again. Its not even done safely ive seen it done on the street, obviously it was blurred out but still traumatic.

There are so many women who come to the UK seeking surgery to correct it. But so much damage has been done that some are unable to have sex and bear children. Even with surgery, its not back to how it was.
And the way they do it is horrendous. Some people pin the child down whilst the others cut and knife away. But im sure they see it as normal as going to tescos for milk.

I agree with you. But that’s no reason not to campaign against both. Both are genital mutilation. Both are unnecessary.

No, Jewish boys are 7 days old.

Interesting. Quite similar to islam then

I totally get why you feel that way. A long time ago my baby son had an operation and I was in hospital with him for two weeks. In the next room was a baby with Hirschsprungs who had to have a much bigger operation than my son, and I overheard them chatting to a nurse as they left saying they would see them again when he came in to be circumcised. I have never forgotten how angry it made me.

@Phiyto9812 He is obviously correct that more cleaning is required,

The penis is literally the easiest body part, or thing, in the world to clean. It is placed not far away from the end of a man's arm in the arm's natural resting position. It just gets rinsed in the shower (something most people do on a daily basis anyway).

Can I ask why that would be difficult for your husband?

plus circumcised men are less likely to contract certain STDs.

62% of men circumcised in Africa.

Is Africa a continent with a reputation for low rates of STIs?

I think Muslim boys are often circumcised later and Jewish boys at a week old.

Most of the reactions to circumcision on this thread are mirrored by anti-vacsers -about inoculations for newborns and children.

@Ohthatsabitshit Most of the reactions to circumcision on this thread are mirrored by anti-vacsers -about inoculations for newborns and children.

Weird comment. Vaccination doesn't cause a perceivable change in the structure or function of the body.

Second, the majority of (although not all) protect against diseases which cannot be reasonably avoided, which is not the case for STIs. It is a bit bizarre to circumcise a boy when most men rarely have sex outside of a monogamous relationship.