This country is doomed

[HappyFace2025]

While the vote in Gorton and Denton may be described as a 'protest' vote the strength of both the Greens and Reform performance is something to worry all of us not just Labour.

What has happened is globalisation. Companies can choose where they base themselves. The world is open, technology made that possible.

In the 80s we had national companies, then international and subsequently Global. The market cap of some of the world's largest companies exceeds the GDP of many countries. That's scary as companies have more economic power that governments and that trend will only continue. Unless consumers worldwide decide to give up the tech?? however even if every UK person did it wouldn't make a difference because at 70m population we're a tiny % in the global world

The pace of charge has been so fast that most people can't relate to the economy.. it's why the extreme left and right is rising because simple slogans sound good but the solutions are complex and will take time, which is causing anger amongst voters.

I hope you don't use Amazon or Meta.

Don't use Meta, do use Amazon occassionally, and do believe both should adhere to UK law.

The tax the rich mantra is stupid because what always happens - see Labour now - is that it ends up being tax the middle. Those on PAYE with settled lives are captives - the only ones you can rely on to squeeze. Billionaires? Not enough of ‘em. Houses over 2 million? Not enough either.

Property taxes would be needed: and naturally the money drains away pretty fast. And of course a drop in house prices because a purchase would have to factor in the tax. Good? Maybe not because then the tax would have to be extended or increased. Eg If my house fell from £750k to £500k then less tax would be due on it. So the threshold would have to drop accordingly.

I don't think that you understand the concept of Election Observers- their role is to observe elections (clue is in the name) and report their observations after the election. They are common at elections around the world.

They claim that they reported their concerns to polling station staff, and I have no reason to think that they would lie about that given they are neutral observers.

They are not there to take action against electoral mis practise - that is the role of the police. Whether they were able to or not would rely on there being a police officer at the polling station.

I still don't understand why you think that with Democracy Volunteers monitoring major elections around the world that you think that they have suddenly become "biased and not neutral " for a relatively insignificant by election in Manchester.

To be honest it comes across as tin foil hat conspiracy theory.

What are the solutions

I definitely agree, they both creep me out. ZP more though, it’s his face and the fear of the unknown.

How have we gotten to a point where these are our options? We are fucked with either of them

The issue is not that either Reform or Greens will gain enough parliamentary seats to form a government after the next GE but that either or both will have enough MPs to become coalition partners with whichever party does hold a majority. Neither option fills me with optimism.

Looking at who they are, there's some heavy duty credentials going on with Democracy Volunteers.

They don't look like crackpots or biased. I was fully expecting them to be.

What they say about poor enforcement of election law is also consistent with my own personal knowledge and experience.

I didn’t say they were biased or “not neutral”. I questioned what the point of them is when they appear to have zero powers and zero ability to back their claims with evidence. It would make total sense to replace them with a police officer in every polling station. The blind faith in a bunch of impotent volunteers is touching.

And you think police aren't biased?!

It is also not clear what the polling staff/clerks did in those situations. For all we know, they intervened or people had a valid reason.

The Democracy Volunteers statement noted that it had confirmed 12% of the observed electorate over 32 separate incidents being potentially directed via family voting.

It did not state whether this was related to any particular political party, religious group, or ethnicity.

So they can report issues to the media - cos checks and balances in liberal democracies are about the relationship between government, the court and the media which all hold each other to account.

Or at least that's the theory. In times of authoritarianism we see more corruption and less holding to account. But the theory still persists that you can observe this process itself.

Well they’re at least required to present evidence and have the powers to intervene when the law is broken.

Well for a starter one solution would be minimum corporation taxes- so that companies didn't shop around trying to base their operations and book their profits in the country with the lowest corporation tax.

After Amazon booked its EU profits out of Luxembourg for this reason, the EU tried to bring in such a minimum corporation tax. However it failed when Ireland completely ignored it and their economy was massively boosted from multinationals booking their EU profits there.

Actually in your post of 22:47 from yesterday, when I asked:

"Do you think that Democracy Volunteers made up these allegations of "family voting""

You replied:

"Yes I do"

So clearly you DO think that Democracy are biased or "not neutral"

As I said this is clearly looking like tin foil hat conspiracy theory to me and what's more inconsistent tin foil hat conspiracy theory.

Why do you think UKIP wanted to leave the EU.

The Brexit vote happened right before legislation in this area was about to come in which would have started a coordinated strategy by European countries on large multi national corporate with closer scrutiny on tax avoidance.

Brexit completely unhinged the whole attempt and further legislation end up in the bin due to a breakdown in coordination which was required by the UK and EU partner governments to stop them being played off against each other or held hostage by multi nationals.

The problem with the greens is diplomatically they are a car crash waiting to happen in terms of international cooperation and an inability to compromise. Cos if they try to they instantly become the LDs in 2010 on student loans. And they won't get anywhere because they aren't pragmatic they are ideologically driven.

It's back to a face off akin to Theresa May trying to deal with the EU. The answer is no. Cos it has to be mutually beneficial.

No, I think they’re attempting to justify their existence. That has no bearing on bias or the lack thereof.

Yep, they don’t give a shit about the state of the UK. Only their own bubbles.

The local elections in May and the GE will give a better picture of what the true British public actually want for their country

They don't need to justify their existence.

They are well established and well respected in the UK and abroad. They are an intrinsic part of the democratic process.

In local elections, people vote for their own 'bubbles'

@BlueJuniper94 I really wish I knew! Even if the UK had a strategy in the last decade (not sure they did) it would have been blown off course by COVID, China aggression and Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Trump was elected because the blue collar workers in the USA lost jobs, aka UK redwall (so charismatic right wing leader got in). Mamdani got voted in because living costs too high, therefore socialism/communism required = UK Greens vote.

The UK government needs super bright individuals who can stay the course and execute a strategy.Farage and Polanski definitely don't fit the brief!

Increasing the UK population through immigration however isn't the answer. We have to encourage growth in the new areas, such as AI. Why can't the UK produce Google type companies? It isn't for lack of talent but because there isn't the focus helping the start ups.

A UK CEO of a start up had to go to the US to grow. His company wants to come back but he is telling Kier that many of our universities are not generating the right skills in AI. Too few courses are focussed correctly - cut the useless courses (that exist for bums on seats) and give the funding to the right courses.

Construction is UK based therefore UK taxation, so focus on generating homegrown skills in that area..don't rely on immigration.

Defence is a sector that needs investment, it is UK focussed. No one likes conflict but we have to be realistic.

Encourage hospitality - enable youngsters to work from 16, part time, without the rigourous employment challenges on companies. This creates the culture of work. I'm shocked by how difficult it is to hire Saturday workers (so called in my day)

How? When they have no powers and aren’t required to produce any evidence? What do they add to the democratic process?

I should add ..we look at the USA and say "how are the Americans so stupid to vote in Trump" but the UK voters are doing the same...Farage and the Greens.

Hence why Greens won’t do well in areas with normal British citizens who aren’t obsessed with Gaza and a particular religion.