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This country is doomed

964 replies

HappyFace2025 · 27/02/2026 08:29

While the vote in Gorton and Denton may be described as a 'protest' vote the strength of both the Greens and Reform performance is something to worry all of us not just Labour.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
JustSomeWaferThinHam · 27/02/2026 14:00

CarlStoleMyUnderpants · 27/02/2026 12:47

We've been talking about it at work in the break. It's been suggested that men have hijacked their wives' postal votes and deliberately arranged postal votes for that purpose. Surely not!

I don’t think that would be an outlandish suggestion. Especially in areas where women are particularly subjugated - covered up and not allowed to socialise freely - or may have no English. The current Mayor of Tower Hamlets, a Muslim man, was convicted of serious electoral fraud and coercion and banned from public office for 5 years. He stood again after the ban and, surprise, got elected again.

I don’t understand why a conviction for electoral fraud does not attract a ban for life. But then neither does being a convicted terrorist or battering a man with a pick axe handle and posing for selfies with crack dealers so hey ho

From the article:
The sorts of offences that constitute electoral fraud in Britain are set out in the Representation of the People Act 1983 (White and Johnston, 2017). These include: undue influence (pressuring someone into voting or not voting); impersonation; bribery; treating (non-monetary bribery); and supplying false information (e.g., falsely registering on the electoral roll, or submitting fraudulent postal votes). Over the last few years, several official reports have highlighted that allegations of electoral fraud tend to be more common in areas with large Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities (Electoral Commission, 2014, Pickles and Eric, 2016, White and Johnston, 2017). In his 2016 review into electoral fraud, Sir Eric Pickles identified a number of incidents involving Britons of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin.1First, he noted (p. 22),
Evidence was presented of pressure being put on vulnerable members of some ethnic minority communities, particularly women and young people, to vote according to the will of the elders, especially in communities of Pakistani and Bangladeshi background
Second, he noted (p. 28)
The review considered evidence of voters in Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities reporting concerns that the secrecy of the ballot was undermined by party activists' knowledge about their choice to vote by post
Third, he noted (p. 45),

In the Tower Hamlets case, the Election Court heard how a voter was seen crying outside a polling station after allegedly being told by a supporter of Lutfur Rahman that it was “un-Islamic” not to vote for Rahman, and that you were “not a good Muslim” if you did not vote for him. The court found that Muslim clerics had participated in Lutfur Rahman's campaign to persuade Muslim voters that it was their religious duty to vote for him
Indeed, the finding by the Electoral Commission in it's 2014 report that allegations of electoral fraud are particularly common in some Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities inspired at least two subsequent academic studies. Gill et al. (2015) carried out qualitative interviews in eight electoral wards with large Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities: four that had been identified as having a high risk of electoral fraud, and four that had not

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261379417300811

FOJN · 27/02/2026 14:01

Vinvertebrate · 27/02/2026 13:52

I don't understand how Gaza has been on the front page since 2023 because Israel, but a murderous regime slaughtered tens of thousands on the streets of Tehran recently, and it was crickets. Is being murdered at Israel's hands somehow worse than being murdered at the behest of the Ayatollah? Are we happy to studiously ignore Muslim deaths - including children - as long as they're being slaughtered by other Muslims? Or by anyone "not Israel"?

I am not at all happy to sit back and watch international law being dismantled, but between Trump/Putin/Xi and the smorgasbord of bad actors in the ME, it's rapidly reaching the point where it won't help us anyway.

Our government didn't say the Ayatollah and IRGC had a right to defend itself. They also didn't pay a private company to conduct surveillance flights over Tehran and then prevaricate about whether they would share the footage with international courts if the footage contained evidence of the IRGC committing crimes.

EasternStandard · 27/02/2026 14:02

MadeInGrimsby · 27/02/2026 13:57

Yes, it'll certainly bite. The Greens were prepared to use Gaza, a sensitive point, perhaps Labour need to reflect on getting their message across. In a GE, I think other Green policies may not be so popular with the electorate.

I’m not sure it can be said with certainty that Gaza was a big factor in this by election but the May elections will show how the Greens do in other constituencies which might not have the same demographics.

I think people are overplaying Gaza as the reason, it was Hannah doing well, and Starmer ballsing up the Burnham thing. But still, there’s a long way to go between a by election and winning multiple seats.

Greens could do well just offering an alternative to Labour. For those that want to stick left that is.

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2026 14:04

glitterpaperchain · 27/02/2026 13:30

A very quick Google provides the answer to your question:

'Under the terms of their new policy, the Greens would put more regulation and taxes on private rentals to make it difficult for landlords to make a profit, while boosting housebuilding by councils.
It would use existing Green policies such as imposing rent controls, ending buy-to-let mortgages and giving councils the 'right to buy' a rental property when it is sold at a discounted price.
The Greens would set up a state-owned housing manufacturer "to mass produce high quality mass council housing for local authorities".'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy9zqzp44vo

So, slowly make changes to make being a private landlord not profitable. Have the council buy up rented homes, presumably with tenants in situ. And build more council housing.

And this is where we talk about how many Muslim landlords there are. My friend (white British) married a Muslim (not Pakistani) who moved to the UK in his 40s so had no pension provision. Going into houses, doing it up and then going into buy to lets is his pension. He's relying on the income. There's so much tax dodging going on in this area too and there's much to be said about cultural attitudes to this - including from white British circles. They both freely acknowledge this too. My friend is by no means alone.

Gorton is an area with a huge number of Buy to Lets. It's THE place in Manchester right now to be looking to invest. My friend is indeed one of them.

The shit hitting the fan within the greens is by no means restricted to issues around identity and culture. There's also a whole bunch of economic policy clashes which make me raise an eyebrow.

AInightingale · 27/02/2026 14:04

Obviously Burnham was prevented from standing, I wonder would he have succeeded in taking the seat? As it was, Labour voters were being asked to vote for the status quo, whereas he was quite openly going in on a 'depose Starmer and steer to the left' ticket.

MadeInGrimsby · 27/02/2026 14:06

EasternStandard · 27/02/2026 14:02

I’m not sure it can be said with certainty that Gaza was a big factor in this by election but the May elections will show how the Greens do in other constituencies which might not have the same demographics.

I think people are overplaying Gaza as the reason, it was Hannah doing well, and Starmer ballsing up the Burnham thing. But still, there’s a long way to go between a by election and winning multiple seats.

Greens could do well just offering an alternative to Labour. For those that want to stick left that is.

I think that's probably how they ought to position themselves. Whereas Hannah Spencer made good points in her speech, the more radical aspects of their manifesto may be harder to sell.
As I understand it, Starmer didn't block Burnham? It was a majority against him, though.

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 27/02/2026 14:06

Mugsey62 · 27/02/2026 12:54

So just her word for it then?

Are you serious??

A Labour politician reports serious threats and beheading by Islamic extremists and you are suggesting she’s making it up?

glitterpaperchain · 27/02/2026 14:07

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2026 14:04

And this is where we talk about how many Muslim landlords there are. My friend (white British) married a Muslim (not Pakistani) who moved to the UK in his 40s so had no pension provision. Going into houses, doing it up and then going into buy to lets is his pension. He's relying on the income. There's so much tax dodging going on in this area too and there's much to be said about cultural attitudes to this - including from white British circles. They both freely acknowledge this too. My friend is by no means alone.

Gorton is an area with a huge number of Buy to Lets. It's THE place in Manchester right now to be looking to invest. My friend is indeed one of them.

The shit hitting the fan within the greens is by no means restricted to issues around identity and culture. There's also a whole bunch of economic policy clashes which make me raise an eyebrow.

...why are you talking about Muslim landlords?

Firry · 27/02/2026 14:07

pocketpairs · 27/02/2026 13:56

Agree with much of what you've said, don't understand the misogyny comment with greens.

They think man can become women by slapping on a dress and wig. If that’s not misogynistic what is???

pocketpairs · 27/02/2026 14:07

WhitebaitLane · 27/02/2026 13:58

How? As I said, weirdo.

You're clearly a deform voter, who holds bigoted views black / brown / muslim communities. Clearly you have forgotten what you wrote so let me remind you "yes, I agree with your theory that Muslims voters want to take over the Greens from the inside, and turn it into a pro Gaza party..can't wait till shit hits the fan"

So stand by my comment WhiteBait..you're a bigot / islamophobe.

Mugsey62 · 27/02/2026 14:08

WhitebaitLane · 27/02/2026 12:25

Think they might have been referring this

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/01/09/i-was-threatened-with-beheading-says-mp-ousted-over-gaza/

There seem to be other results for threats against mps so not sure

Thanks. The telegraph eh? No possibility of bias there then.

Shuffletoesxtreme · 27/02/2026 14:08

AInightingale · 27/02/2026 13:51

Open borders=huge increases in population=added pressure on water and sewage infrastructure, the road network, the amount of waste we produce, and most importantly the environment. The building of multiple new homes and developments (Labour have relaxed planning law as it is) has a terrible impact on the ecosystem. Green policy is contradictory and incoherent (and that's without getting into their even more crackpot cultural and gender policies).

Yes, I can’t see how the combination of open borders/ UBI and green local opposition to house building can result in anything other than a catastrophic collapse of standards of living for the very working class that the Green Party say they represent.

twilightermummy · 27/02/2026 14:09

I've been a Green supporter for years and I'm over the moon with this result.
I hope this has scared Reform who have tried to advertise themselves as the only minority party to take on the big 2 when really they're just a drop out club for failed Tories.

Vinvertebrate · 27/02/2026 14:10

FOJN · 27/02/2026 14:01

Our government didn't say the Ayatollah and IRGC had a right to defend itself. They also didn't pay a private company to conduct surveillance flights over Tehran and then prevaricate about whether they would share the footage with international courts if the footage contained evidence of the IRGC committing crimes.

Equally, unarmed Iranian citizens are not a proscribed terrorist organisation who have sworn to obliterate every Ayatollah from the face of Earth. 🙄What's your point? That mass murder is okay as long as it's other Muslims? That we can't criticise Khomeini (even if he did order a bloke on the back of a truck to fire at will into crowds with his AK-47) in case it's Islamophobic? Or that other classic that I read on here - that criticising Iran is playing into the hands of Netanyahu? It requires serious mental yoga to be that obtuse, surely?

I am ashamed to say that I used to think the risk of antisemitism in the UK was overblown, but recent events have certainly proved the old "no Jews, no news" theory.

WhitebaitLane · 27/02/2026 14:11

pocketpairs · 27/02/2026 14:07

You're clearly a deform voter, who holds bigoted views black / brown / muslim communities. Clearly you have forgotten what you wrote so let me remind you "yes, I agree with your theory that Muslims voters want to take over the Greens from the inside, and turn it into a pro Gaza party..can't wait till shit hits the fan"

So stand by my comment WhiteBait..you're a bigot / islamophobe.

Are you in employment at all? How long have you been policing thread?

You are acting very weirdly, you picked up on my extremely inoffensive comment that said basically nothing at all, and seem to be out to start a fight with everyone. Everything ok at home?

Also, I’m not white, and I don’t have bigoted views towards myself or my children/family. Why do you want, a selfie? Get lost.

charliehungerford · 27/02/2026 14:12

JustSawJohnny · 27/02/2026 13:08

What's worrying is how many people gladly suck up the blatant lies of Reform because it suits their narrative.

The amount of people who believe blatant lies about immigration figures & benefits because they are routinely fed propaganda via SM, the Daily Mail/Telegraph/Sun and GB News is truly embarrassing.

Reform ARE NOT FOR THE WORKING CLASSES. FFS, Farage wants to lower minimum wage to seven fucking quid!! He also wants to reintroduce zero hour contracts.

Yes, the immigration service in this country is a joke. It fails EVERYONE, But to say that it is the biggest issue we face and that without it we would be living in a land of joy and plenty is RIDICULOUS.

Our real enemy are tax dodgers and the companies that are allowed to increase our bills while making record profits. THE VERY PEOPLE WHO FINANCIALLY BACK REFORM!

Getting rid of THEM really would improve our lives!

At the end of the day, the majority of people in Britain are decent people and are not falling for Reform's bullshit.

I understand The suggestion regarding the minimum wage is for the under 21’s to make it more attractive for businesses to employ younger people. Currently we have the highest youth unemployment in Europe.

pocketpairs · 27/02/2026 14:13

WhitebaitLane · 27/02/2026 14:11

Are you in employment at all? How long have you been policing thread?

You are acting very weirdly, you picked up on my extremely inoffensive comment that said basically nothing at all, and seem to be out to start a fight with everyone. Everything ok at home?

Also, I’m not white, and I don’t have bigoted views towards myself or my children/family. Why do you want, a selfie? Get lost.

Edited

What next, let me guess..you'll say you have a black friend.

Adios..

EasternStandard · 27/02/2026 14:13

MadeInGrimsby · 27/02/2026 14:06

I think that's probably how they ought to position themselves. Whereas Hannah Spencer made good points in her speech, the more radical aspects of their manifesto may be harder to sell.
As I understand it, Starmer didn't block Burnham? It was a majority against him, though.

Yes it was a majority vote with Starmer as one of them I think.

Hannah spoke well on winning. Re your pp on Polanski and his views on Labour he’s been pretty clear on wanting to replace them, so he will go for them but he also talks about beating Reform.

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2026 14:13

glitterpaperchain · 27/02/2026 14:07

...why are you talking about Muslim landlords?

Because of immigration patterns / voting patterns in Gorton and who tends to go into being a landlord and who seems to be voting Green and what the green policy is in this area and how it's a clash between self interest and party policy.

Cos it's relevant to talking about the future of where Green policy might end up going on the subject of private landlords.

Honest to god I'm not being a dick here. I'm pointing out a conflict that at some point that's going to come to a head if the greens do get power at Westminster and do try to implement their manifesto.

The number of people absolutely determined to scream racism is astonishing!

MadeInGrimsby · 27/02/2026 14:15

I read a report that Starmer voted the other way? I'll check.
I'm sure he wants to beat Reform. My point is that he made no reference to them in his victory speech.

glitterpaperchain · 27/02/2026 14:16

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2026 14:13

Because of immigration patterns / voting patterns in Gorton and who tends to go into being a landlord and who seems to be voting Green and what the green policy is in this area and how it's a clash between self interest and party policy.

Cos it's relevant to talking about the future of where Green policy might end up going on the subject of private landlords.

Honest to god I'm not being a dick here. I'm pointing out a conflict that at some point that's going to come to a head if the greens do get power at Westminster and do try to implement their manifesto.

The number of people absolutely determined to scream racism is astonishing!

Right, but you didn't actually talk about any of that in your post.

WhitebaitLane · 27/02/2026 14:17

pocketpairs · 27/02/2026 14:13

What next, let me guess..you'll say you have a black friend.

Adios..

Well yes, and my eldest child is 3/4 black. I’m mixed, I have a Nigerian mother, Hausa precisely. What is the relevance of having black friends, we’re not even talking about black people?

Like wtf is your problem for real?

Genuinely, there is something not right. I’m going back to work because I have better things to do. Maybe you should too?

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2026 14:19

glitterpaperchain · 27/02/2026 14:16

Right, but you didn't actually talk about any of that in your post.

I thought it was self explanatory from the context of the conversation about entrism and conflicts about the divide within the green party between white young progressives and often older Muslims on policy, but hey let's just always assume the worst.

glitterpaperchain · 27/02/2026 14:23

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2026 14:19

I thought it was self explanatory from the context of the conversation about entrism and conflicts about the divide within the green party between white young progressives and often older Muslims on policy, but hey let's just always assume the worst.

No, you directly responded to me and alluded to things you didn't actually talk about, and then said people are determined to scream racism? You sound a little unhinged honestly, I don't know what your comment about assuming the worst is about?

anotherside · 27/02/2026 14:23

And it was doomed under Thatcher and under Major and under Blair and then under 13 years of the Tories fucking everything up. What else is new.

The least worst solution is for Labour to get a new leader with a backbone, and then to knuckle down for the next decade and try and sort out some of the mess left by the Tories and the Tory rats that have jumped shit to Nigel’s Temu Tory Party.