Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

I think a lot of it comes down to howvyou position it and your position of power in the family.

If you feel bullied, at her mercy, just doing what it takes to keep her quiet, well that's very different from making a positive decision to support her for now.

There is a parenting tool called non violent resistance (nvr) - you can do a course on it. Itvis about increasing your personal presence in the house for starters, as this alone can have a huge impact.

It is often recommended for homes where adult children won't move on in any way ("failure to launch").

I did the course re my elder daughter for other reasons, but it helped re my younger daughter too, even though we couldn't use all the techniques with her.

She would have spiralled if we had tried to remove an allowance. She did no chores, qe bought her her own food, I took her to and from work...it was all scaffolding imototally necessary. But I was always in charge if that makes sense.

For starters I never did anything because of her behaviour. I always did what I thought was best. This is partly how you build parental presence.

Once you have that, everything is easier.

Nothing. She won’t apply for anything. She wouldn’t want to admit to anyone her autism, anxiety or current difficulties. She feels a deep sense of shame and she deals with this by putting her head in the sand 😢

@Whattodo1610 will she REALLY mature? It seems so hard to believe at the moment. Although I know from other issues with my older dds that time and maturity were great healers.

Not an attack, but why didn’t you apply for DLA for her when she was younger? You can apply for PIP for her now, on her behalf. For me, what screams out here is prioritising everything here - my priority would be the financial side of things, get PIP and UC sorted first, then build up from there. Others may do it a different way with different priorities.

@Arran2024 we have dipped in and out of NVR over the years. And actually thinking about it, we’ve made slight progress with a few small issues at home. I’m ashamed to admit that I almost used to usher my oldest dd out the kitchen so dd3 could eat alone. Not any more, dd3 has to wait if she wants the kitchen to herself. And I’m firming up on what I’m prepared or not prepared to do food wise. Small steps.

Sorry I don’t think this will change without a bit of a catalyst.

I’d agree with tapering the money you give her down. So it’s not just a sudden loss of all income but a gradual reduction to a basic, not generous, level. Then if she complains you can say that it’s on her to supplement it how she wants, either she applies for benefits or gets a job. Her choice.

I don’t know, I wasn’t aware of what benefits she could get and no one advised us. Now she’s an adult, she would have to have some input into any application, no?

She says she ‘can’t’ get a job. I’m guessing this means that in her head she ‘should’ be at university and that stops her from doing anything else.

You can apply for her PIP on her behalf. You apply to be her appointee at the same time time - this lets you deal with everything, all paperwork, phone calls, meetings. Then when it comes to UC the same applies. As you’re her appointee for PIP, you automatically deal with all aspects of UC for her.

Well yes she’s always going to have a hypothetical answer isn’t she! This is where, seeing as she’s an adult refusing all help/ therapy/ benefits/ other reasonable suggestions, you shrug your shoulders and let her work it out or live on a basic allowance for a few months. Where’s the incentive for her to try to sort things out if she’s being kept in luxury?

Won’t she have to sign to agree to this?

NVR sounds a good middle way to go. Maybe you should think of going on the course and commit to that approach for a period of time? I know you said you tried some elements but it seems as though you are taking a bit from a lot of different approaches and it might be conflicting and confusing. Maybe you should pick one way that makes sense and agree to all try it consistently for a period of time.
What would NVR say about the original cake issue or the allowance issue (I genuinely don’t know but it sounds reputable and interesting)?

• Active Resistance (Withdrawal of Services): Stop performing tasks that encourage dependency and unreasonable demands, such as refusing to be a 24/7 taxi service, not cleaning up after voluntary messes, or taking back control of internet access (e.g., changing Wi-Fi passwords).

Withdrawing or reducing the allowance sounds like it could be in line with this NVR principle and could be done in a planned way eg via writing a letter with some warning as they suggest.

For me just waiting it out would not be something I could cope with. Firstly I’m not sure I could stand it and secondly I would worry too much about what if it never does get better and the behaviour just gets more entrenched. I am not saying I am an expert on ND parenting however.

That was a very good point about applying for something so that her NI is paid.

Oh OP, I have a 20 year old with ASD and I don't think you're just her safe place are you? You're her scape goat. It is much easier and safer to just say you've ruined her whole life and made everything impossible for her due to the trauma you've caused than actually face her fears and go out into the big, scary world.

There's no trauma here OP, she's upset that you weren't honest about the assessment, that's fair enough - but it's not trauma. The trauma is facing the real world, facing the possibility of failing, facing the possibility of not being perfect - and that is what scares the hell out of her. Staying home and blaming you for it is what is safe.

She won't speak to her dad because he won't bend over backwards for her, she knows he has boundaries. She doesn't behave like this at baby sitting because she knows it wouldn't be acceptable. But with you it is acceptable, you allow and enable this because you're terrified of the consequences if you don't.

I would try to stop the vague reassurances (or choose to be vague and then explain what you mean by your vagueness so she's prepared for people being vague in the real world). For example 'I'll sort the cake' probably has a very specific meaning in her head that she will think means the same in your head. When it doesn't she gets upset. 'I'll sort the cake and by that I mean I'll either do x with it or do y with it. If you have a preference let me know before dinner.' I'd give her a couple of options with any issue and the time to decide which option she wants to take (time to process sounds like it's probably important to her). There is no choice to just completely opt out and then get upset when you didn't psychically know what she wanted you to do. Remind her calmly and firmly that she had options and a time scale if she gets upset after the event.

You've tried suggesting she does a course with children or with animals but there's no point suggesting things IMO. She won't be interested in doing anything that is not 'the thing' she sees herself doing. You need to find out what that thing is and help her get there. If it's studying finance at Bristol and then you need to work out how she can get there with her. She will need a lot of scaffolding with every step of the way, but if it's what she really wants it will be easier to get her there - if she can get past the terror of not living up to her own very high standards. Break every aspect of moving on down into the smallest, safest feeling steps that you can.

I agree with avoiding punishing her in any way right now. I would also not now start making her do chores for money you've always given her - giving her that for nothing in the first place was a mistake, but she will see it as a punishment if you change the rules on it now. She doesn't need to be paid to help around the house, she's a young adult and should be doing that anyway, tell her you think it's important she starts building her independence and needs to do x or y for herself now. Does she iron her own clothes? That could be a good starting point. Make it things that she will be doing to benefit herself.

Then moving on to what she wants to do with her life. Do you know what she planned to do for uni? Where she wanted to go? Did she want to go to an RG uni? Did she want somewhere more specific that that? What does she need to get there? What access course or foundation course does she need to do? How does she apply? I really think she needs to be saying what she wants to do and she needs you (or someone) to help her get there.

Tell her that it's time now she's a young adult to start thinking about her next steps and you're going to help her all you can. The choices are that she gets a job, looks at college courses she could do or looks at going to university and how to get there - giving her choices will feel like less pressure even if you already know she wants to go to uni. Ask her how long she would like to think about the options and come to a compromise on this. If at the agreed time she is undecided then agree to give her an extension of a week but that after that time if still no decision is made then tell her that her allowance will be being gradually reduced until she makes a decision - because she is a young adult now and adults don't get free money unfortunately or to spend years procrastinating.

If she keeps coming back and back to the trauma and the diagnosis then i would write her a letter clearly apologising for not telling her in advance and explaining (but not excusing!) why you did it. No 'I'm sorry but....'. Be genuinely sorry and then explain why you thought you had to do that and what you hoped would come from it. Then write how wonderful she is and how much you love her. Then move on to how important it is to now start thinking about moving on and her next steps and how much support you are going to give her with moving forward. It may be easier for her to process a written apology and it is something that she can keep going back to.

Good luck OP. Stay calm, be kind, but be firm. I found my autistic teen could be like a toddler in some aspects and sometimes I needed to go back to repeating myself calmly and firmly over and over again like a stuck record until it sunk in.

No. It can be a grey area. It’s not just about applying, it’s about her capacity to manage her own health conditions, fill out paperwork, participate in phone calls and appointments etc. At the very least you need to talk to her about her struggles, help her understand she is entitled to money to live off, it may give her a sense of self worth, independence, meaningful thoughts on how to manage her own finances etc.

Have you pondered having house rules? That way they are fair and equal.

You either earn money or study.

You must do chores.

Applied to all of you in the house.

Every time I try and talk to her about this, she shuts the conversation down. I would be wary about applying for benefits on her behalf without her knowledge because I think it might harm our relationship and I am trying to rebuild some trust.

For me just waiting it out would not be something I could cope with. Firstly I’m not sure I could stand it and secondly I would worry too much about what if it never does get better and the behaviour just gets more entrenched

@Shrinkhole this is my thinking. I try and work out how long is the right period of time to allow a strategy to work. Months? A year? Three years? We’ve been sitting and waiting for 2.5 years and there’s been no progress. So does that mean that technique hasn’t worked? Or hasn’t worked yet and dd needs to mature a bit for it to work, perhaps into her early twenties as people have suggested. I’m not afraid to set boundaries but I am afraid of making her worse.

@curlyfriess thank you for your helpful post.

Re the trauma - surely it isn’t for anyone else to say what others find traumatising or not? I’m trying to be understanding and believe and trust what she says. And for whatever reason, she says the diagnosis ‘changed’ her. Even though I’ve told her a million times she never has to mention it to anyone again if she chooses not to. But she’s stuck in the past, maybe I need to be firmer to encourage her to move forwards.

Sorry OP but I really want to shake you.

Its you. Not her.

She isn’t traumatised. She’s ruminating and pissed off and you’re the scapegoat. You’re 100% perpetuating it all.

Im not suggesting “consequences” etc which rarely work well with PDA but for goodness sake assert yourself!

You and your husband should have applied for EHCP and DLA and now PIP on her behalf years ago. You’re clearly a bright family but it seems that you have ALL decided that benefits/assesments/diagnoses are not for people like you, somehow. And the outcome of that is that she is entirely unsupported outside of the echo chamber of home, and with absolutely no ability or agency to do anything. So she doesn’t. She can’t. And instead of tackling that, you get bogged down in cake or whatever else she is chewing over.

You can’t change her behaviour, only your own. Start focussing entirely on you for a bit. Get assessments yourself. Get diagnosed, instead of sending the unspoken message that no one needs to know what’s really going on.

Just to add, I applied for PIP for my daughter (autism with PDA), transfer over from DLA, and she went berserk when she read what I I wrote about her - it was so bad I had to leave the house. It was the single worst incident ever. BUT that lasted a couple of hours max. She soon settled, adjusted. I kept my parental presence up by staying calm and not debating it with her.

@Teenthree I def need a shake if it will help dd.

Im not sure why there has been this focus on the benefits. Im certainly not against them but at the time no one advised us and as dd was so against the diagnosis anyway, we didn’t push thing. And actually her first 1.5 years at secondary (just after diagnosis) she thrived both academically and socially.

But what’s done is done, and I can’t turn the clock back now.

Im not sure what you mean by your last paragraph - assessments for dd? From whom? Isn’t the idea that she has agency? How can this be achieved if Mummy is doing things like this for her?

I woke up this morning to a load of messages from dd, this happens every so often. Usual stuff - she never had any problems before, people believing wrong stuff about her that ruined her confidence to work hard, half her life has been wasted, it doesn’t feel like her life thanks to me….. and the worst one - there’s no way back from this 😢

If there’s no way back from it then just get on with your days and accept what she has said. You’ll soon see if she meant it or if it’s being said as a means of control. ETA - you could even say you accept her decision and you won’t be entering into any discussions about it. It’s done and dusted, end of.

Then going forward you have to get your daughter’s finances sorted out. I don’t mean punish her by using money as a weapon. I mean explaining real life, that you can’t support her forever (even if you can and would be willing to) and if she won’t try to get a job then she can earn some pay at home from you for jobs done whilst waiting for her benefits to come through.

So that will be her life - at home on benefits? That breaks my heart 😢