Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

I agree.

DD3 is living in your DH's house for free. She's eating his food, using his wifi. He takes her out to the cinema and pays for her. He is allowed to tell her to put the shopping away, and she should be treating him with respect and courtesy.

It's not acceptable to treat another adult like this, and she needs to learn that. If she moves away to Uni her housemates will not tolerate her making demands on who can say what to her, or let her eat alone in complete silence in all probabilty.

Maybe. But babysitting is very like the "bossy play" which is a common feature in people with PDA. They like being the boss, with other kids, animals or teddies as passive props. Think vet, teacher, doctor.

It is a game where they are in total control and they don't like it if the props start deviating from their game.

They are prepared to rouse themselves from their usual demand avoidance for the feelings of control they get from being in charge. It calms their anxiety.

It is not necessarily transferable to other situations like cooking your own dinner.

When you say you're planning to reduce her allowance by £20 a month over the next 4 months, do you mean each month she will receive £20 less (next month she would receive £80, the month after £60, etc.)? If so, I think that's a good plan, combined with options for ways she could earn back some money.

I agree with PPs that your DD dictating who she permits to make requests of her is really not on. She needs to accept that her dad can ask her to do something and she should do it. You know they say to pick your battles. This is a battle I would definitely pick.

OP, I’ve been in a similar situation to your DD3. And I can only explain what helped me, which was a shock to the system. My parents explained to me that they wouldn’t be funding my lifestyle anymore and if I wanted money I’d have to get off my arse and get it. Did I have a hissy fit? Absolutely. I felt out of control and like my life was out of control. But I found work. I had unhealthy coping mechanisms which ended up with some awful life decisions. But I got through it, and now realise it was the best thing my parents could do for me. Now I’m late 30s. Happily married. 2 kids. And soon graduating into my dream career.

A bit of a reminder to her/you: generally people who are suicidal and have made the firm decision to end their life will go off and do it. Not threaten it on repeat when they don’t get their own way. Also, there’s a certain “stuckness” that comes with it - it’s not that they want to die. It’s that they want life as they know it to end, so work can be done with her when she realises this and can put a plan into place via “this life is making me unhappy. I can’t change the past. But I can change the now. How can I make my life the life I want to live”.

Has that list given you any pause for thought?

@Hellometime yes and no. Lists like these are only suggestions. Firstly, in contrast to popular belief on MN, I do not believe that if you don’t teach your dc these skills young, they’ll never learn to do them and turn into lazy feckless adults. And secondly there are many other skills on the way to independence. My dd2 for example, wasn’t particularly skilled in cooking when she was younger, but she thought nothing of travelling alone by train to visit a friend on the other side of the country as a young teen. Or have the social skills to be able to make conversation with people of all ages. The sort of teen that adults loved as she was so mature and personable.

Now dd1 and dd2 have been away to university, their skills have vastly improved - they can cook, clean, drive, wash their clothes, manage their finances, travel independently etc. It doesn’t necessarily have to be learnt at a young age.

But that said, I totally agree that dd3 is massively behind. And we are working on that in small steps. She won’t suddenly cook a 3 course meal overnight but she can peel and chop vegetables.

@ArchieStar I love your post, thank you for sharing. And congratulations on your forthcoming graduation 👏👏👏

Thank you.

a step down approach worked for me - like you said about the dropping by £20 a month. The only difference was I had started smoking at the time so it changed to “you have £60 towards a food bill for the month. Cigs are not included” and no one would lend me money in case it went on cigs. The step down finances thing will help her, as will the communication from dad. A polite but firm “you have two parents, not just me” rinse and repeat will help it to sit right in her head. This push bag is because she has been in control for so long so will need to adjust. Just keep on as you are, well done to both of you for doing your best with what you could - and now you know better, you’re doing better which is more help than you realise right now :)

I'd just stop her allowance. Full stop. Tell her to sort out an income/seek benefits.

Why are you pussy footing around her ?

She's an Adult.

You provide a home, food,shelter.

That's all she needs.

Not an "allowance"

No more money transferred to her or paid to her.

And yes, as you know, I've a daughter who was similar to your daughter.

It's not just about teaching life skills though. It's about giving children/teens a sense of purpose, pride in their own abilities, and a feeling of contributing positively to the family unit.

I hope that's not OP's DD's situation because it would be terrible for a child to be left in the care of someone like this.
Children are not props, and they will, without fail, deviate from the script.

This is indicative of your enmeshed relationship with her and seriously needs to change. She is so ridiculously dependent on you despite having two capable caring parents. I’m afraid it would not have got to this extreme state if you were not to some extent complicit in it so you do need to think about that. Are you sure that some part of you doesn’t want or need your youngest child to stay dependent on you?

You have got to tackle her excessive dependence on you for her to be able to move on in life. You need to start setting boundaries as you are doing: no communicating to DH for her, no refusing to speak to him, no disturbing you at work or on a night out with him. Ideally she really needs to get her own interests where she can have peer relationships away from you.

Are you sure that some part of you doesn’t want or need your youngest child to stay dependent on you?

Absolutely not. No bloody way. I’m so ready for the empty nest and to travel more with dh. I’m frequently surprised at parents who feel sad when their dc leave home. That’s to be celebrated and your job as a parent to raise an independent adult is done.

I hate DD’s dependence on me, there have been times when I’ve felt very trapped. It’s getting better gradually and I’m so spurred on to make changes.

We had a small win yesterday when dd eventually put the shopping away as instructed by dh without my need to step in. She’s getting the message that changes are afoot.

@Arran2024 I hadn't heard the term "bossy play" before but that makes a lot of sense to me! A nice way to sum up something I have seen in outgoing kids with ASCs, and the reason why everyone can seem to be playing beautifully and then suddenly something blows up so fast seemingly out of nowhere.

Children with ASCs are often creative and imaginative and everyone is happy with them directing the play until another child decides not to do what the "bossy" ASC child says. The "bossy" child can't negotiate or flex and gets frustrated and angry that the other children aren't doing what the "bossy" child says they should be doing.... and all hell breaks loose.

Anyway I very much agree with all the posters who have said that DD learning to listen to DH is worth the effort of battling it out.

This is exactly true and such a common parenting fail. If you say no you have to mean it and follow through. If you say no and then you always ultimately cave you 100% teach your child that continuing to disobey will eventually elicit the desired outcome. You see a lot of people making wild threats of consequences that it is obvious they won’t go through with and then giving in anyway. Better to pick important battles, allow natural consequences but never give in and show a united front. Early on DH and I agreed to publicly back one another in front of DC even if we had doubts about the other’s decision and have it out in private later and I believe we have always stuck to that.

My MIL gave in to BIL’s (youngest child) terrible behaviour all his life and in adulthood she continued to bale him out of the consequences of his poor decisions financially and in other ways. He’s the only one of her children whose life has not turned out well unless you class living in squalor in a caravan on benefits smoking weed all day as a good outcome (which he might well do). He just never learnt to take responsibility for himself and to this day it’s all someone else’s fault often his long suffering mother.

We had a small win yesterday when dd eventually put the shopping away as instructed by dh without my need to step in. She’s getting the message that changes are afoot.

That's a big win. Your efforts to make changes are paying off and things are starting to turn in the right direction. Go you! (And go DH!)

Keep going and don't be put off if it's two steps forward one back.

Well done on sticking to your guns 👏 Has the conversation about the allowance happened yet? How has she taken that?

I also think that’s a big win. keep going.

That's brilliant sounds like you and her dad both being assertive is working. I'm sure baby steps will turn into big strides to independence soon enough.

That's brilliant sounds like you and her dad both being assertive is working. I'm sure baby steps will turn into big strides to independence soon enough.

I agree parents need to be consistent about consequences, and sticking to them even if the child kicks off, but I don't like to be too rigid about always doing exactly what you said even if you realise you've picked the wrong consequence or overdone it because you were so upset. Then I do think it's OK to backtrack. What's not OK is making a habit of threatening consequences and not following through. Small realistic consequences that you can repeat if you have to are much more useful than big extreme threats that you either can't follow through at all or you can only use once and then you've shot your bolt so you're stuck if your child does it again.

It's often hard to unpick what's the child and what's the parent. Your MiL might not even have started out doing anything very different with her youngest from the others but maybe he didn't react the same way and then she didn't know what else to do.

That's a huge win that she did what your DH said!

My sister and I were the same. We were required to do almost nothing around the home. Our mum was very much of the view "you'll get to do plenty of that later". We had no difficulty figuring out laundry, cooking etc when we left! Tbh it did come as a bit of a shock to our mum when later our DHs did most of the cooking while DSis and I directed the family finances, but times change...

I think it’s disrespectful to do ‘almost nothing around the house ‘ as a teenager .