Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

So she's getting at least £80 per month now, if it's going to be reduced by £20 per month over the next 4 months?

You are paying her at least £20 per week (probably more?) despite how she treats you? And does NOTHING around the house?

I'm amazed. Wow.

Anyway, good for both of you, stepping up and parenting her.

It's going to be uncomfortable, but she needs to learn she can't behave like she is doing, even with ASD.

And yes, someone with HF ASD like your daughter CAN learn this lesson.

And you are doing the right thing, gently teaching her this is how real ife is.

She needs to be understanding this is how the real world functions as it's obvious she CAN function in RL.

Good for you both!

@bendmeoverbackwards It's great that your DH is getting more involved. 🙂 Are you going to taper the allowance down to nothing?

Well done for starting tio make changes. I would expect your DD to make a fuss each time there's a change, whether it's to her allowance or to who tells her what to do. It's a bit random, and sometimes small changes cause even more fuss than big ones, but difficulty managing change - even positive change - is a common feature of autism. You and DH will have to barrel through until she gets used to the new thing.

Now that you have laid out what is going to happen with her allowance stick with it. Continue step by step and don't reverse or stop the change halfway through even if she makes a fuss.

There's a lot of uncertainty around parenting in general and parenting young people with autism in particular. We can never be totally sure that anything will work out well. So rather than worrying about what is exactly the "right" and "wrong" thing to do, I like to stay inside "the space of reasonable things to do". You can always correct a mistake once you're sure that it was a mistake and not just DD taking a very long time to adjust to a new thing.

Does she offer to pay eg her cinema ticket or for her meal/drink or is she firmly in child mode that mum pays.
Don’t get me wrong I’ll often treat my dd age 20 but there is an understanding that I’m treating her and she does sometimes pay for things for me like coffee.
I think it’s important to recognise that mum paying isn’t automatic right when you are an adult.
Good your dh is more involved it’s not fair it’s always you bearing the brunt of her behaviour.
Not sure how generous your generous allowance is but I’d be cutting it to minimum, if it’s £100 reducing it to £80 still seems a huge amount for her doing nothing and no incentive to change. You’ll get grief no matter what you do.

Does she offer to pay eg her cinema ticket or for her meal/drink or is she firmly in child mode that mum pays

@Hellometime no she never offers to pay. I’m not too bothered about that at the moment with all the other issues going on. But we are starting to talk more about us providing a home for our adult dc and if any of them aren’t happy then feel free to move out.

She gets £100/month. This used to be £60 clothing allowance when she was younger but I was also funding £££ hair products on top of this. So we upped it to £100 to include everything. She wasn’t happy about this initially but we stood firm. In addition to the financial side, I was ordering her stuff online which I felt should be managing herself. So that’s been working well. But we’re now going to reduce it down by £20/month. TBH I’m pretty sure she doesn’t spend much, her main expense is her hair products (she has very curly hair which needs maintenance for her to be happy with it) and a bit of make up.

Obviously you set allowance at what you are comfortable with but as an outsider even £80 a month to a none working adult who won’t do any chores willingly is a lot. £80 plus phone and you paying for lots of nice extras like cinema is a very comfortable lifestyle with no incentive to change.
Are you planning to taper down again? I personally think you missed the boat and should have stopped paying her pocket money at 18 when she was an adult. The concept of paying pocket money to an adult doesn’t sit right with me at all.
If she genuinely can’t work then she can claim PIP and possibly other benefits.
I admit have wondered if she’s doing that anyway and not telling you as she’s an adult (again lots online from similar teens on tik tok etc to assist her) Only occasional letter by post - are you at work when post comes?
Has she any idea what min wage for her age or apprenticeship wage is for her age. She’d be working 10 hours as an apprentice to earn that for example.

The curly hair thing. While fancy products are a nice to have they are a luxury not an essential.
My friend who is a senior professional on a decent income uses this from Boots £1.59 for example.
If she wants fancy products that might be an incentive for her?

In fact, it is pretty much the opposite as you are in charge. My daughter has PDA and works in a nursery. It works for her because there is no one really telling her what to do. It involves lots of initiative, quite a lot of freedom. I know you have meal times etc but for someone with PDA, it gives the impression of being in charge, and that's what they crave.

That’s interesting @Arran2024.
Op has never clarified the babysitting eg type or how frequent. The sort my dd did in sixth form was very easy money turn up when baby about to go to bed babysitting, think she only once gave him his tea. She was sorry when they moved house it was such a nice easy job.
I don’t get impression the dd 3 here is wanting a longterm career in childcare.

I don’t think it’s the potential PDA or anything like that that is making people use the babysitting as an example of things. It’s the fact people on this thread say that it might be beyond her capabilities to be able to work or go to uni or live independently etc. And the OP saying she can’t even decide when to eat all by herself. Surely deciding yourself when to eat is being in control and is better than someone telling you when to do it? But the OP says her daughter needs strict instructions about how to heat up a meal and when to eat it. That is why people are questioning the discrepancy. She’s obviously capable of looking after children. But is also apparently incapable of deciding when to eat. It’s nothing to do with PDA and control.

The babysitting is very as hoc. She’s got 3 families she works for and they contact her when they need her. I’ve been trying to put out a few feelers locally to find her some more families but no luck so far.

@Hellometime funnily enough dd started out with this product. I don’t really get curly hair but it’s a question of finding the right product for your hair. Dd researches it all and to be fair to her, she does try to find cheaper alternatives where possible. I do feel for her because when your self esteem is already low, the last thing you need is for your hair to look rubbish.

Argghh, dd is still continuing to argue that if we want her to do things, it has to be requested from me not Dh. In the past I have accommodated this but I’m not doing it any more. She’s got no right to dictate who asks her and I’ve told that sometimes Dh will ask her and sometimes me.

stick to your guns

I’ve been trying to put out a few feelers locally to find her some more families but no luck so far.

Well, it's time for her to start figuring out an income out for herself. Or do without fancy haircare products.

when your self esteem is already low, the last thing you need is for your hair to look rubbish.

Don't project onto her a connection between low self esteem and haircare products. As long as she's still washing her hair regularly she is doing OK.

dd is still continuing to argue that if we want her to do things, it has to be requested from me not Dh.

That's a power game so don't play along. Keep repeating "you have two parents, either of us can ask you to do things" and "you have two parents, you must listen to both of us" and "you have two parents, if Dad tells you to do it then you need to do it". It wont work straight away. She is persistent and she'll keep trying. You and DH need to keep going and be more (gently) persistent than she is.

And if she does what Dad asks, she gets the allowance or whatever. If she doesn't do it, no allowance.

One of my friends had some pocket-money chores and the kids got a bonus if they did a chore straight away no arguments. Her kids were 8 years old but your DD is still operating at around that maturity so it might work.

She really is dictatorial, isn't she!

It's a totally unreasonable request. I hope you stick to your guns.

It’s not for you to grow her babysitting business though. And not a good business model as if you need your mum to approach potential clients it’s a massive red flag you aren’t up to the job. My dd was talking to the hiring director at the summer camp she’s going back to and they said any yp that have mum with them/talking for them at the hiring fair they automatically discount. She could advertise on local facebook etc. I suspect little incentive to as she’s getting £100 free cash a month.
Whats her excuse for not applying for a paid childcare type job eg before school and aftercare, holiday summer childcare schemes etc. Qualifications are not always essential.

Again the hair thing. It’s her decision. If she wants fancy products she pays or has them as presents. You are providing hot water, towels and basic products.

I wouldn’t entertain any nonsense re who asks her to do things. It’s our house and you are our daughter. If you are wanting to live here you’ll follow requests from both of us. I’m your mum not your manager. The whole requesting her to do things and her deciding whether or not to depending how nicely you’re asking is ridiculous she’s an adult and should be doing things without being asked. I would say that to her. It’s very tiresome to have to keep asking you to do things. You are an adult who lives here and should do chores without needing a manager (mum) asking you.

I’ve got my organised mum method book out (Gemma Bray) I was going to suggest using some of checklists in that as a simple thing to follow for chores rather than you having to issue requests.
I’be just seen this page about tasks for children which might be food for thought for both of you.
What does she do on this list unprompted? What does she do if you specifically ask? How much does she never do eg does she do all her own laundry?

One important thing to know about people who are desperate for control is that if you keep standing up to them about an issue and you don't give way and they eventually realise you will never give way ... they usually roll over. And often what they feel is relief.

It may only be on that issue, they'll still argue blue in the face about something else. So you have to decide what's worth the long hard persistent sticking to your guns because you can't fight like that over everything. So stick like a rock on those few things. Once you decide and you say it, then it is so.

Also it means you may need to to give way immediately about other things. That's OK, you can park those issues, let her have her way now and pick up them up later. What you need to avoid is "We fought and fought and we stuck to our guns but in the end she wore us down and we gave in". Because if you give in after a long fight you are training her to keep fighting. Giving in after a long fight just makes your job harder next time.

Good luck!

I think the pattern is Op starts saying she’s being a little firmer, the dd 3 kicks off and Op backs off.
Op has been speaking about being firmer since February and nothing changed.
I honestly as an outsider can see zero incentive for your dd to move on.
Nice bedroom and en-suite with a cleaner cleaning it, virtually no chores, phone and WiFi, taken out to cinema and meals and all paid for, £100 spends, no expectations on you to do anything, mum making you nice meals.
My dd jokes it’s a bit like an all inclusive resort when she comes home from uni for a few days but she knows it’s not real life and it’s just 3 days of me spoiling her. Longterm it’s not good for anyone.

Has that list given you any pause for thought?
My friend’s yr5 boy was making spaghetti bolognese for his cub badge this weekend. Chopping all the veg etc. That’s an age appropriate simple meal for a 9/10 yr old.
I accept as she’s ND she may function as slightly younger than chronological age eg maybe more like a 16 yr old but not even functioning at 10 yr old level? Either a) she’s got some type of undiagnosed significant learning disability or b) she’s never learned and been babied or c) she’s leading you a merry dance. Given her level 6 GCSE’s I suspect it’s a combo of b) and c)

Honestly this feels like the most important area to stick to your guns on. There are pros and cons to some degree in all other areas like allowance etc, but you just cannot have a situation where an adult child is living in your husband's home and ignoring him and that's accepted. You would be creating such a difficult position for him if you don't back him up and he would be doing the same for you if you all just agree that you are solely responsible for all "parenting". It feels very divise and manipulative on her part whereas everything else you can at least give her some benefit of the doubt that she doesn't intend it to be that way even that's the result.

This isn't easy and you're doing a great job - it's so much easier to give advice when removed from the situation and you can be objective than when it's your own children, hopefully you're finding the advice from this thread useful rather than anything coming across as typical MN sanctimonious advice. I'm mainly still following for inspiration as I know I would find this situation really hard in your shoes (not there yet) and everything you've done so far has been so well handled and considered.

Agree regarding DH. You'll do her no favours by normalising treating other people poorly. Even if there is no bad intent it will look really bad to other people.