Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

@bendmeoverbackwards sorry but this is a spectacularly unhelpful comment and I urge you to ignore this. Because it plays into all the fears that have held you back from helping your daughter for three years.

You have been cautious! Three years is a long time to wait. And now it’s time to act before it’s too late and your daughter cannot find her way out into the world.

I’m not advising that they do nothing. I’m just worried in case the suggested approach doesn’t work in the way some posters are telling OP it will.

It’s not selfish at all to want to live your life Op.
It’s clear your dd can manage when she has to.
It’s clear you are scared of taking any action and possibly making things worse.
Would it help to be scared of not taking action? The only time I’ve seen a bit of fire in your responses is when I suggested your dd3 would inherit your house by default.
If you and husband die in a car crash tonight you are leaving your older two DD’s with a huge burden and potentially leaving dd like a child unable to navigate an adult world. She’s not known to social services, has no income.
I imagine your older two would step up out of duty but if they don’t and dd1 goes off and performs on a cruise ship and dd2 carries on travelling and they instruct solicitors to sell the house (as your will leaves it to the 3 of them) your dd3 is alone and vulnerable. That would scare me.

This is a really helpful thread as i have a daughter with autism and other doagnoses and i am supporting her financially at the moment. I can see the similarities and differences between the situations.

Your DD is not going to like the mobey stopping obviously and it may not spur her on to do all the things that you want her to do. She should at least apply for UC, as that shr would not have to disclose anything to them.

I truly hope things work out for OP and her DD. Everything I say is in an effort to be helpful.
Again I’m not saying she shouldn’t act. It’s the method of action I was querying.

@Brightnessinside I think all posters have acknowledged the DD’s autism. No one in all the posts have suggested throwing her out or not feeding her.
Op is happy to feed and house her but would like her to be in education/pt work/volunteering and do some low level chores. So treating her like she’s a secondary school age child. The way Op interacts with her reminds me of when my dd was about yr7 and I was at office in school holidays, I’d text dd to check she’d had lunch etc.
The Op has been extremely cautious and treated her with kid gloves. How much of DD’s incapacity is due to autism and how much due to never having age appropriate demands on her and consequently never developing skills is something to unpick.
Op has been very low demand for almost 3 years. She sat her GCSE’s June 23 and has done nothing since.
I very much agree with @PinkPhonyClub.

But other than leaving everything as it is the OPs daughter isn’t going to like ANY form of action. So unless everything just stays as it is there’s always the risk it won’t work. Until you try though you won’t know.

She will see the cutting off of her allowance as a punishment I think.

I think the dd will resent Op whatever she does. I can easily see her turning around in a couple of years and saying you just let me bed rot on tik tok for 5 years, you knew I was autistic why didn’t you do something it’s too late now. I was a child when you allowed this.
Op is a mum of 3. DD1 and 2 must be very resentful.

I doubt they want to live like their sister.

That's a good point. When her sisters are established in their careers, with their own homes, partners, and potentially children too, the DD3 may well be very resentful that she isn't in the same position and blame OP for that just like she blames her for everything else.

I think given that the allowance is one of the few levers you have left, and it has worked in the past, it’s worth a try. Of course if there’s a major disaster you can rethink the approach. And if you do it incrementally it shouldn’t be a major shock. Realistically what else can you try to change.

Someone viewing an action a particular way doesn’t make it true. Adults do not get allowances. They either earn money through working, or get benefits. Almost every adult that once received an allowance from their parents had it stopped once they hit a certain age or stage or life. So nothing that is happening to the OPs daughter is unusual. This can easily be explained to her. If she will not or cannot see it that way it is not the OPs fault. All she can do is offer reassurance and help in other aspects of life.

She can see it that way but so what?
You don’t have a right to an allowance from your mum at 19. If Op was on benefits or state pension she couldn’t afford to give it her.
Op can explain it’s not a punishment she’s still choosing to pay for her housing/food/basic toiletries/phone for her and will assist with claiming benefits/getting treatment if she wants. That’s being supportive not punitive.
Paying money to an adult enabling them to do nothing isn’t being supportive it’s the opposite.
The dd may start doing a bit around house for money. She may take on a bit more babysitting.
She may shout and slam doors. She may withdraw and sulk in her room.
The only worsening I can see if the dd starts stealing from home (eg mums purse) or shoplifting but Op will know if that’s likely.

Everything is focused on her - rewarding her, incentivising her by removing things that matter. Have you tried turning it around? Telling her that you can't work forever to support her. One day you want to retire. You want to be able to go in holiday for longer than a weekend without having go worry if she will eat. You want to be able to have a day at work or an evening out without being bombarded with 20 messages that are starting to affect your own mental health. You want to spend some of your time away from work on fun things, not picking up after her and doing her share of the chores. That this situation can't continue forever because you can't work forever to support her and you also emotionally can't go on for another 2 years. You dont intend a drastic change but you either need to see small improvements to help - starting today - or you and her need to consider alternatives such as seeing a doctor or a therapist, claiming benefits, applying for a council house or assisted living since the last 2 years show you cant give her the help and support she needs. This isnt a threat - its a reality. Someone needs to house her, feed her and support her. If she can't, and you can't, then who?
Tell her you aren't asking for a dramatic change. Every week you want to agree achievable goals with her that help her independence but also improve your life (and let her know this bit!) E.g Week 1 - she helps you cook on 3 evenings, does her own washing and runs a hoover round the house. You'll help her on all if she asks - but she has to be engaged. If she says she can't and she refuses, then have natural consequences. Cant cook? Her allowance is reduced to pay for a takeway or you have sandwiches on those nights. Cant help with the washing, washing up or cleaning? Allowance is reduced to pay the cleaner to do this for her. It isnt a punishment - its her choice. Get paid to help or give up the money so that the rest of the family dont suffer from her choices. It isnt unfair - her sisters are expected to work, study full time or claim benefits. It isnt unkind - her actions in giving the extra work to you is unkind.
Basically your continued financial support is contingent on her also supporting you by recognising you are a person impacted by her choices and actually engaging with you in getting the help and coping strategies she needs. If this means her not helping round the house but instead seeing a therapist - thats fine and still a win. But no change = allowance tapering down and stopping, as you can't afford to keep supporting her and covering all the chores.
Threats of suicide mean immediate calls to the gp or samaritans with her. If it is real, she needs help at once

So if doing nothing isn’t appropriate and cutting off the allowance isn’t appropriate, what do you suggest the OP does?

*if this is all absolutely impossible due to her autism, then completely ignore! I can't say what the between can't and won't is for her

They don’t want to live like her but they must feel resentment at how much of their parents time and headspace dd3 takes up and see the impact on their parents who are 50s and 60s. They’ll know mum and dad aren’t taking holidays or downsizing due to her etc.
The dd2 is travelling, no hope of mum and dad flying out to meet her etc.
They must worry they are going to get lumbered with dd3 once their parents are elderly or dead.

The dd2 is travelling, no hope of mum and dad flying out to meet her etc.

@Hellometime not quite true. In spite of DD’s difficulties we have always tried to split our time. In the last few years, both Dh and I have taken trips just with dd1 or dd2 and had lovely times with them. I flew out to the US to meet dd1 post camp America a few years ago, and am shortly accompanying her to Spain for a dance audition.

Dd2 has said to me on occasion she felt bad for burdening me with her worries when I had so much on my plate. I put her straight and made it VERY clear that I have capacity for everyone and she should not hesitate to talk to me when she needs to.

It's not selfish at all. It's completely normal and healthy to want to live your own life without prioritising your adult DD in all your decisions.

If your DD were completely unable to live independently or make any decisions that would be one thing, but it really doesn't sound like that's the case from what you're describing. If it's safe for her to babysit then she must be much more capable than she shows you at home, surely?

This!

@Brightnessinside I feel your "advice" is coming very much with a large serving of projection of what it would be like in your own situation with your DS.

@bendmeoverbackwards I'm seeing you reaching forwards in your thinking in a way you haven't for a long time, looking to the future both for DD3 and for you and DH (and DD1 and 2) and seeking to make it the best it can be for all of you.

It won't be a linear journey, it'll be a marathon with steps back aswell as forward but you are on a different path now with regards to your determination to move DD3 out of her "paralysis" and into her version of a full adult life.

You said previously "I’m scared of making the wrong decision and making things worse. We’ve made wrong choices previously and I want to make sure what we do actually helps her."

Of course you are nervous about potentially making things worse, that's completely natural but you accept now that's a natural feeling and not an 'end point' to progress.

And wanting to "make sure what we do actually helps her" of course you feel that, but you are also now embracing that an inability to guarantee that an action will be 100% successful must not stall and derail trying.

I'm hugely impressed reading your posts of the last few days, with DD3's multiple "it's all your fault" texts etc. and seeing you hold firm and direct her to engage with her own emotions and actions rather than relying on blaming you - this is all "adulting" stuff.

Stay strong OP! 🏋‍♀️

I think those of you who are trying to persuade the OP that her daughter can be turned round with some tough love, boundaries etc seem to forget that there are actually LOADS of people in this county who barely function, who are never going to live full lives, who require constant support, who have severe mental health problems or other conditions that are simply intractible.

It isn't easy to turn a juggernaut round. Parents will have tried and tried ....there is limited help available and some people will not progress regardless.

I know several young people in their mid to late 20s who are stuck in their bedrooms. They all have autism and are academically able.

The OP'S DD3 isn't "stuck in her bedroom" - she socialises, shops, eats out and babysits.

She isn't a stuck juggernaut and negativity about her having the best life possible for her isn't great advice.

No-one is saying of a particular strategy 'this will work'.

Most, if not all PP, are saying 'this might work'.

What is pretty clear is that DD3 will not change in any meaningful way of her own volition.

Which means that change has to come externally, and the only people involved with her are @bendmeoverbackwards and her DH, so it is down to them.

Softly softly hasn't worked, so it's time to try something else. The longer this 'failure to launch' goes on, the harder it will be to effect any change. Continuing with the status quo through fear of making things worse is actually making a decision NOT to try anything.
And OP has reached a point where things have to change, for DD's benefit, and for the whole family.

So does that mean no one should ever try? Should all parents just accept what their child says at 16 that they wish to do nothing and just leave them like that forever? What happens to these children when their parents die?

I’m not denying it might be beyond lots of people’s abilities to live a “normal” life. Maybe it’s also beyond the OPs daughter’s ability. But isn’t a worth a try? Also, if it truly is beyond her ability, then she needs to start claiming benefits or PIP or whatever. Eventually this daughter will be a pensioner. With zero NI contributions and never being known to the benefits system. Then what?