Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

The Op didn’t force the professional to diagnose her DD as autistic. She was having significant issues late primary school including not able to eat in front of others and Op was quite rightly concerned about secondary school.
I think if Op hadn’t pursued a diagnosis and wheels come off then the dd would have now been complaining that mum hadn’t pursued diagnosis (again lots of angry girls on tik tok in that vein)
The DD is an adult now and can choose what she discloses. She doesn’t need OP’s permission. There’s nothing stopping her from registering at college today and ticking no disability or additional needs. Can apply for any job and tick no or prefer not to say on disability.
Yes maybe Op could have been more open when she was 10 about what she was speaking to the professional about but that’s 9 years ago. Things need to move on and raking over same old ground isn’t helping anyone.

How have the last couple of days been @bendmeoverbackwards?

Ok thank you. Dh and I are away this weekend and having a lovely time. Dd is still trying to draw me in to circular conversations (today’s was about how I shouldn’t be disappointed with her for not putting the food shop away as I had ‘only just’ told her - in actual fact I’d been reminding her for 3 days so I’m completely justified to be annoyed). I gave her an answer and said I’ve got nothing else to add.

Those who asked about the constant WhatsApp messages and timing of them - it’s not a huge problem because I turn my phone off when I need to/want to so often her messages aren’t read by me until much later (when convenient for me). I’m also not picking up her phone calls when I’m out unless I want to.

Food is a bit of an issue when we go away and this needs work. I normally have something prepped for her to heat up (or a ready meal) and she does seem to need very clear instructions (including what time she should eat! I mean can’t she decide that for herself??). I would love to go away and just fill up the fridge and larder with stuff she likes and let her get on with it, but that needs building up to. She finds decision making very difficult.

In November 2027 dh and I will be celebrating our 30th wedding anniversary and we are planning a special holiday. So I want to make sure that by then we can go away for 2 weeks knowing she’ll sort her own food.

Oh and also, I came across this US based parenting coach and have seen some of her videos. She works with ‘emerging adults’ who haven’t yet launched. This is her website -

https://www.reallifeparentguide.com

Does the food thing really need “building up to”? Would your DD genuinely starve herself without explicit instructions to eat at X time? I mean, if that truly is the case, then she has quite significant additional needs. Or are her questions/demands yet another way to control and manipulate you?

From a read of your thread @bendmeoverbackwards It sounds like you're making a really good start at changing things. But since you say that your DD has baked a cake from scratch before, she is clearly capable of feeding herself and putting food away. This sounds more like a case of weaponised incompetence. It reminds me a bit of the relationship threads where women describe husbands who become helpless when faced with chores like housework, changing nappies, or meal planning. They need endless reminders and guidance through every step, over and over again, until their wives give in and do it for them. These same men become suddenly, miraculously, capable when it comes to things they actually feel like doing.

She finds decision making so incredibly difficult so much so she would starve herself to death without instructions about when to eat yet you allow her and she is apparently able to care for small children totally be herself? That doesn’t add up really does it.

Glad you are away and getting a break Op.
The food and putting away shopping. If she genuinely can’t make simple food then she sounds like she does have more going on than her autism diagnosis and some type of learning disability.
Do you genuinely think it’s can’t?
Has she ever been able to do it and regressed? Eg most children will get their own breakfast from junior school age or comfortably make own lunch at 12 if off school and mum at work.
I can’t reconcile how you have been thinking she might be capable of going away to University if she’s not able to decide to pour a bowl of cereal at breakfast or make a cheese sandwich for lunch.

Yet this is a young woman who looks after young children by herself.

@Hellometime she can do stuff that doesn’t involve cooking eg sandwiches. Can use microwave. Lately she’s been having yogurt and granola for brunch and she’s added fruit and cinnamon. She once made an omelette for herself with my supervision. She seems quite reluctant to use the hob for some reason. When she’s been around and I’m cooking I’ll ask her to stir something or turn the heat down.

@bendmeoverbackwards How did she make a cake then?

Yeah I wonder what would happen if on the food you just didn’t help? By which I mean leaving food in the house and then telling her that the fridge and cupboards are full, you’ve left £20 for a treat/ takeaway and then just repeating that? If she keeps texting just ignore her for at least half an hour before you respond (to give her time to get hungry!).

Not to be cruel but because making her own decisions about these little things is what is gong to put her on the path to bigger decisions.

Incidentally one of my relatives who hates cooking on the hob has really embraced an air-fryer and this might be a thought for the future- but only if you’re on the right path to start with.

So why can’t you go away for a holiday and just leave her with cold food? She won’t die not having a hot meal for 2 weeks. She won’t die from just eating microwave meals either. Students across the country often live on pot noodles, yesterdays pizza and alcohol for all of term time.

It’s quite confusing really how you describe what she can and “can’t” do. Do you need to tell her when to eat breakfast if it’s just yoghurt and berries? Or is she capable of just doing that when she wants it? Is it just hot food she for some reason can’t manage to decide when to make it? Even microwave meals? If you’re away for the weekend even in a different time zone do you have to text her when it’s time to eat breakfast? Or do you leave her a note with set times for each meal? It’s quite difficult to understand what she is actually “capable” of in your eyes. You go from saying she’s making granola and yoghurt with berries and sandwiches and can use the microwave to saying she’s so bad at decisions she can’t even decide when to eat a meal by herself.

Yes I totally agree with the inconsistency. I think if I dig a little deeper I think it comes from a natural instinct as a parent to want their child to eat. Even when much older adult children return home for a weekend, parents enjoy feeding them.

I have no idea. I was honestly in shock. I suppose she’s much more capable when the pressure is off and it’s on her terms.

It sounds like she's entirely capable of cooking and looking after herself when she chooses to, but she usually prefers having you do everything for her. Many people would enjoy not having to cook, clean or do anything for themselves if they had someone ready to jump in and do it all for them.

Well yes, they do enjoy making a roast dinner and inviting their kids to eat it with them, or a special meal. Parents of older children would absolutely not enjoy having to tell their children when to eat breakfast and leaving a full suite of cooked meals every time they go away! Not saying this to be harsh but it’s really quite different.

Is it possible that all these decisions she “can’t” make and gets you to do, is actually her way of ensuring you are focussed totally on her?

I think she is, in the purest sense of the words, spectacularly self focussed. And then has a bit of a guilt wobble and starts texting you about whether you like her.

A fair interpretation of this might be that she knows perfectly well that her behaviour is unfair and disordered and controlling, but then checks back in with you to ensure she can still continue. It’s very toxic.

I've only just read both threads today. I'm so glad to see that you're now being firmer OP and not doubting yourself so much.

You have been given some wonderful ideas here, particularly from @Shrinkhole and @Terfymcnamechange who have been hugely supportive to you throughout this thread. Their posts alone would be an excellent guide for you to return to again and again.

I would only emphasise the following: I really want to push home the idea that your daughter's escalated reactions to your new stance are classic examples of behavioural extinction bursts, as some other PPs have already noted. ie. when someone realises that their old dysfunctional strategies aren't working anymore they try to pull out all the stops in an attempt to get you back into line. This is what your daughter is doing.

Extinction bursts, while often highly unpleasant, show that what you're doing is working - and that you need to keep being very consistent about it. I implore you not to give up now.

Threats of suicide can be taken seriously but also handled in a practical manner. Eg. 'We are very concerned that you are expressing that you want to take your life, and we are calling an ambulance for you right now.' Follow through on this every time. Some people use suicide threats to control others and make them comply with their demands. Whether or not this is the case with your daughter, you need to regard it as an illness which must be treated.

I will continue to follow your story. Please continue to update. Clearly many people here want to support you.

Thank you @DotTheBorderCollie I am hugely grateful to everyone on here for their advice and words of wisdom. I wish I could give you all a big hug ❤️

Maybe one day I’ll be able to advise someone else with a similar issue.

I know someone who has an adult son with learning disabilities. Once she had to go out of town due to an emergency and left prepared meals for her son. When she returned, she discovered that he hadn’t eaten anything. In this situation, he genuinely couldn’t make the connection between his hunger and the food that had been provided for him. But it doesn’t sound as though your DD has such profound needs, given everything you’ve detailed about her abilities and activities.

Why did you supervise her to make an omelet? She’s an adult, did she really require supervision? It seems as though you’re pandering to her in some ways when she is perfectly capable of looking after herself.

I would suggest you have a look at the PIP application form and start filling it in - not necessarily to apply for it as you said she isn't interested, but to gather your thoughts in an organised manner around her areas of need. This could be a useful resource for you if you need to discuss her needs with professionals. It will show you the extent of her difficulties against the national benchmark.

Living off a random assortment of food is totally normal in a student flatshare - just leave her to
it. She's clearly capable of cooking if she wants to. Micromanaging meals just perpetuates her being dependent on you. Living off random snacks and cereal for a few weeks won't do any harm - and I'd be pulling back from family meal preparation longterm.

I agree, I would think about what is an appropriate expectation if a 19 year old, tailored a bit to your daughters needs, and leave her to it.

so most 19 year olds can make their own food, but will still have family meals. Your daughter finds eating together difficult, fine. But I would just leave her to make her own breakfast and lunch. She shouldn't need reminding of this and if she is going to go off to Uni at some point she needs to be reasonably independent.

It sounds like your daughter has decision paralysis and is worried about making the 'wrong' choice and being filled with regret. This is common in perfectionism. The way to move past it is exposure, so making the 'wrong' choice about e.g which birthday cake to choose, feeling a bit of disappointment and letting it go. In your first post you were trying to make things 'right' for her but that just makes it worse, as it reinforces that disappointment over a cake is a really big deal, and any negative emotions she has are for the family to fix. Encourage her to start making all her own choices as much as possible, and stop doing things for her that she can reasonably do herself, and she will learn a framework of how to choose, and how to deal with disappointment and mistakes.

I think part of the reason she is stuck is she is paralysed by fear of making the wrong choice (and finding reasons why she can't, like 'trauma') and hasn't understood that not making a choice is also a choice. Not choosing which school to do her A levels at or an alternative has left her doing nothing for 2.5 years, which is probably worse than any choice she could have made at the time.

Is some of her non-functioning around food based on anxiety and fear of doing the wrong thing? In her mind you may be some kind of protective judge or critic of what she does, and so your least comment gets blown up into "OMG I should have done it better, I can't do it properly, I can't do it at all". And the constant round and round messages are her looking for reassurance.

If so then she may function better when you and DH are away and totally out of the picture for two weeks. She might not eat a healthy diet and she might make a mess and not put stuff away but hopefully she wont starve either. When she has to figure it out for herself and no-one but herself she may actually cope better.