Dd, autism and cake - Thread 2

[bendmeoverbackwards]

I had no idea that my first thread would fill up and I am in awe and overwhelmed at the amount of support.

I am going to re-read all the responses and make a plan. Thank you, this has been eye opening.

Dd sent me a TikTok video about some girl talking about killing herself but then didn’t.

I am intending to ignore this, tell her to stop scrolling and ask what she is doing today.

Whoa! Bloody hell OP that’s MASSIVE manipulation! If your daughter was ACTUALLY suicidal she would be thinking about suicide not how to keep her mother in check, which this does! She knows exactly which buttons to press!!!!

If you try and impose any boundaries now you’ll get massive escalation. Not suicide - quite the opposite! Armageddon!

It’s pure manipulation. I’d just ignore her.
Honestly cutting access to her drug (social media) is best instant thing you can do.

OP you’ve got your hands full
with this one. Be ready to
come back to this thread when she next goes on hunger strike or threatens to poke herself with things or overdose etc etc. Remember that this was entirely predicted and is entirely manipulation. See her for what she is.

This is very manipulative and not OK. I would respond with something like, I am concerned you are looking at this sort of content, especially when you are doing in the working day. We may need to look at your internet access to stop you engaging in this harmful behaviour.

If anyone in my life made vague threats of suicide to make me do something, I would consider that abusive.

Agree 100% this is abuse. I’m so sorry she’s doing this to you OP.

I think all this talk of ‘tough love’ is erroneous.and is not helping @bendmeoverbackwards at all.

i haven’t seen anyone suggest anything really tough. Really tough love would be: ‘you’re an adult so you can move out next week and get on with your life, here’s some money - good luck 👋🏼 ‘ As I said, I’ve not seen anyone suggest that would be appropriate.

but all this focus on PDA/anxiety is deeply unhealthy. Firstly DD3 has not been diagnosed with either. Secondly, this low expectation attitude hasn’t helped in over 2 years - why will it make a difference now?

Many posters have suggested various things the you can do to set healthy boundaries and scaffold your daughter into adulthood. I hope you feel confident enough to keep going now you’ve started. The worst possible thing you could do now is back off - it will make any future intervention even harder because your daughter will know exactly how to stop you.

Im not going to ‘flame’ @Whatafustercluck because I appreciate she can - like all of us- only give her perspective but I think her advice is unhelpful.

An analogy.
Your house is on fire but some fires burn themselves out with minimal damage so using a fire extinguisher will ruin your belongings … you should just let it be… it will be fine.
But other fires rage wildly and burn down the whole street so you need to put it out now before it becomes impossible to do so.
Which type of fire is this? And how much longer will you wait to find out? What’s the risk?

I might be wrong. But something has to change. And more of the same will not do that.

This is excellent response. It also takes away the you are being mean arguments if you cut access.

yeah but, in the OP’s head is the question “what if she kills herself?” And the appalling sketch this morning where the daughter sent her a video about exactly that, presses those buttons. But as soon as the scales fall from the OP’s eyes and she sees her daughter for the arch manipulator (and troubled young woman) that she is, she will THEN be able to do something different.

I agree @AintNoPartyLikeANumber10Party.
There is a middle ground between throwing her out and letting her do whatever she wants and funding the lot.
I don’t think refusing to pay an adult’s phone contract or not give an adult a generous monthly allowance is tough love. Op obviously can afford it but lots of parents couldn’t or wouldn’t fund on principle.

If Op was genuinely worried re suicidal thoughts then she’d be on to crisis team/medical help not at work on mumsnet. I think op knows deep down it’s manipulation. I don’t think the dd has ever made any attempts on her life or self harm.

wow she’s really trying to push your buttons. Because you asked her to think about her future. Can you see how toxic her behaviour is?

personally I would actually react to this. In person, this evening.

‘DD3 I was shocked that you think it’s appropriate to look at suicidal ideation content on social media, let alone share it with me. I have been thinking for a while that your social media use is irresponsible and unhealthy and this just proves it. As of now you will no longer have access to WiFi at home. And I will be changing your phone contract to reduce your data allowance. You are an adult and I can’t stop you looking at whatever you want to online but I will not enable this immature and unhealthy behaviour by paying for it.

Then you change the WiFi password and give it to your DH and other 2 dds and you change her phone contract (even if it costs money to do that).

And then ask her about her plans for the future again.

It’s classic manipulation.
Gosh mum is being mean I’ll whip out my ace and imply suicide (as seen on tik tok) and she’ll back off again for a few months. Worked like a charm last time and the time before.

Yes definitely middle ground. Of course I wouldn’t throw her out but as the days go on and am thinking about the wise words on here, I am gaining confidence in putting firm boundaries in place. And have made a start with my conversation with dd yesterday.

Ive realised that I was looking VERY short term which I need to change ie avoiding difficult conversations with dd so she’ll come and sit with us in the evening, watch tv, play chess etc. Which is very positive and connecting but SO short term. I need to consider the long game. My aim is not to have some pleasant times together, but to get her to launch her adult life.

My daughter is 27 now. Due to her being autistic and diagnosed at a relatively young age, I do happen to know many families with autistic young women. And sadly I know several where these young women do just stay at home - no jobs, no friends, parents walking on egg shells in case they upset them...

Once it gets entrenched it is so difficult to shift, especially as adults are allowed to do what they like, so it's not like with children's services where professionals will get involved.

I would say you have a small window to get her out and doing something - anything to stop her from being one of the stuck 27 year olds i know.

Would she go on holiday with you? Sometimes just changing the dynamics slightly in a non confrontational way is the beginning of change.

Yes! yes to all of this!

I know she won't do this but I still think you can encourage her to apply for UC and PIP rather than you funding her. UC is given even if the person is unable to work. She'd have to deal with other adults.

Her adult life will look very different from what you might have wanted. And it will take a long time. I strongly recommend joining support groups in real life or online, for parents/carers of young people with autism/possible PDA.

DD3 needs a cold bucket of reality. Because her adult life isn’t what she herself aspires to & that will only compound as the years fly by.

Is she going to be watching TV with her parents at 40 still telling people she’s too good for a “shit” uni & it’s all her mother’s fault. No one cares when you’re 40, not one even cares where you went to uni at that stage.

Op you remind me of someone who knows they need to lose weight & they talk about it a lot & they might for a short walk but that’s it. You need to do the equivalent of marathon training with your daughter.

And your husband needs to be a big part of it even if he has to be dragged to the table. It’s - OUR house & rules. You are a unit together.

Not Mum talking about trying, while keeping secrets with DD3 from dad.

Chnage the WiFi password today. Her sisters get the new one. If you have your change it everyday to give her two hours to research do that.

And cut pocket money, no special shampoos.

She gets food & board. And with that she gets chores. And if they’re not done she gets no wi fi.

You have to push her out of the nest cause she isn’t going by herself.

Reward progress. Signing up for a course of whatever - I’m proud of you, & buy her a few treats that.

Back to basics - effort is rewarded.

And she should be told firmly that you will not be emotionally blackmailed out of doing your parenting duties by her.

The problem with this is the assumption that PDA strategy means 'no demands, back off'. It doesn't, although admittedly it is a skill in itself learning how to couch language in a low demand way. And you can (actually must) absolutely have very clear personal boundaries, but it involves natural consequences, not those imposed by others. So example: "I won't be spoken to like that dd. When you speak to me like that I will walk away". Srick to it, repeat in the same way, every time, consistently. This is very different to "if you don't do as i say I'll remove your internet access" - flashpoint because autistic people often use their special interests (access to animal videos for example) to self regulate.

You can maintain your own personal boundaries/ red lines (e.g. against verbal aggression) while in all other respects you can remain loving, supportive, warm.

When i talk about 'demand' language, that can be as subtle as changing "hey, why don't you consider volunteering?" (huge mountain to climb, anxiety spike) to "hey, I'm going to the local animal sanctuary on Saturday, want to come?" and then using that as a first step of a longer term strategy to encourage engagement with the world.

Everyone has some level of demand avoidance. Who in real life tackles the hardest, least enjoyable task first in their work environment? Not many I'll bet. But PDA is like this but on steroids. An incremental approach to reintroducing structure and forward planning - baby steps - is what has been proven to work in situations like this, time and time again. You just have to find the right hook, which I appreciate is much easier said than done when you're in the eye of the storm.

Incidentally, when op's dd was diagnosed, little/ nothing was known about PDA. If she were getting her diagnosis today I suspect it would look very different.

Honestly I’d be livid. I think you and your DH need to find your anger here to steel your confidence to deal with this and see it for what it is.

You ask some minor questions on what she is doing on research - an adult you house and fund who does not work or study - and her immediate go to first to say you’re being mean and then sending suicide ideation videos? Unacceptable.

She has crossed a line here and you need to deal with this now or you’ll be have the same petulant overgrown toddler living in your house age 40, blaming you for failure to launch because you “lied” about a meeting in 2018 whilst you bend yourself into pretzels to not trigger her.

Being nice to her has got you nowhere.

And absolutely do not agree to keep things from your DH it’s completely inappropriate of her to put you in that position and play you off against each other. Tell her that you’ll discuss things with your DH as you see fit and that if she’s not happy with this she needs to speak to someone else, like a GP or a counsellor. Or better still her dad!

I might stop all of this “checking in” though as I think it’s just giving her an opportunity to manipulate you. Just tell her the WiFi is off between 9am-4pm and give her a schedule of incremental reductions to her allowance, then leave her to it.

See I don’t see the removal of WiFi as a threat or punishment. It’s not your god given right as an adult to have a fancy iPhone and WiFi paid for by your mum. Op can’t sit on her phone all day she’s working to pay for it.
For every cat meme, she’s looking at harmful content re false diagnosis/trauma etc. Probably hours on end locked in a bubble seeing damaging false content.
Op can choose to change phone providers and not renew her adult daughter’s contract. Choose to change broadband provider and have a few weeks gap. It’s her house her money.
If the adult dd wants access she can fund her own - babysitting money or claim benefits. But op doesn’t have to pay for the poison that’s damaging her dd.

I do agree the repeated checking in by message isn’t appropriate. It reminds me of sort of contact I’d have had with dd age 12 home alone in school hols if I was in office.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/mental-health-reimagined/202509/rethinking-pathological-demand-avoidance/amp

Not wanting to derail the thread but the 'low/no' demand approach to PDA is considered harmful by some experts.

It has evolved on social media/parent support groups as a way to make life easier now, rather than a long term evidence based approach that leads to the best outcomes for children/young adults.

For every cat meme, she’s looking at harmful content re false diagnosis/trauma etc. Probably hours on end locked in a bubble seeing damaging false content

This.

I don’t know who decided screens are necessary for people with ASD to self-regulate, but I’m sure that recommendation wasn’t meant to be extrapolated to scrolling social media for hours on end, all day. I heard someone describe it as chasing “second-rate dopamine bursts” which seemed apt.