Can we stop acting like everyone has an equal capability to become well off?

[DeluluTaylor]

Based on the pension thread but not about OP. All this ‘why do people spend their whole lives on MW’ is so woefully ignorant. Some people don’t have a choice.
Neurodiversity
confidence
childcare availability
institutional racism
learning disabilities
trauma and it’s impact
Lifelong insecure housing
Being able to speak English but not write it
So many, many reasons why it is difficult to climb up the ladder. I’ve never been able to as I don’t have the right skills for management. But the world needs more worker bees than managers!
Who do they think should do these jobs?

Yes, I believe he’s in Cardiff prison but not 💯 on that.

That is weird then. I have known people to be turned down for Amazon warehouse work because they have cautions (and I am not sure why you need a DBS check to work in a warehouse).

That is weird! It’s definitely a thing, some prisoners also work in Tesco, he drives them there too.

I learned something today though... that prisoners can work in the community. Is this some open prison thing? I have no idea how it works.

When people go on about prisoners working, I just think of Timpson, and that is released prisoners.

I had no idea either until a couple of weeks ago when my friend mentioned it - her prisoner friend drives the minibus and has a mobile phone to do his job, and he’s also allowed to come home for the night a couple of times a month on a tag. So I guess it’s a pretty low security prison. He is about to be released after serving 14 months of a 7 year sentence.

All this talk about choice and yet we need all of these careers and we need people who aren’t using them as a stepping stone to something else.
Take social work, as it’s the only thing I know anything about. None of the high earners on this thread are saying that we don’t need social workers are they? But how useful would it be to have continual newly qualified social workers with no one with experience in the role, no continuity or stability for the people we support, no one to guide the students.
I just can’t believe that the loudest voices on this thread think anyone who doesn’t just train in whatever will earn them to most money is a failure or lazy.

There was someone who said a social worker should be a solicitor if they want more money.

@XenoBitch it’s crazy. No NHS, no social care, no education, everyone needs to be magic circle solicitors or accountants in big pharma. Why bother doing anything if not aiming to retire on 6 figures, fuck society.

Yep. Anything less means you are a failure. They forget the "failures" prop up society, and their jobs too.

@XenoBitch I wasn’t even moaning about not being well paid either, I was simply questioning the (quite dim) responses on the other thread about why someone would or may remain on NMW for their whole lives.

I have seen comments on that too. Someone saying they have a MW job and then being asked why they are in their 40s and doing that job.

You have highlighted a list of reasons why people are not more successful. Many cannot be over come.. I mean, how do you overcome learning disabilities?

This is MN though... if you are not on £200k then you deserve the piss to be taken out of you.

Are social workers badly paid? A quick google says a newly qualified social worker would be on “£32,000 – £37,995 per year”. And experienced up to £50k. That’s without going into team lead or management roles.

The U.K. median salary is £39,039, so that doesn’t seem low paid for newly qualified. I’m not sure I would compare it to minimum wage, particularly as there would seem to be salary progression in-role.

@ElizabethsTailorwell according to some of the PP I should have chosen law or STEM to prevent myself being destitute in old age. My OP wasn’t about me anyway but people took it to be and started suggesting part time OU book keeping courses so I had to chime in.

I think that a lot of the woefully dim folk have followed you here OP.

I think as soon as there's a hint of vulnerability or compassion in a thread, the sharks smell blood in the water and swim into comments with their horrendous hot takes .

None of the reasons listed would stop someone earning above NMW if they were determined to.

However earning NMW all of one’s life means consistently working and not being unemployed/ dependent on others. So it’s not something to be looked down on at all.

Lots of solicitors aren't paid as much as people think, especially early in their careers. Public sector lawyers, criminal lawyers, etc. Average salary for a solicitor in the midlands is £40k-ish, and that's the average.

Some are paid obscene amounts and many of those will have worked excruciatingly hard for it and will often are very driven by money.

I am not saying law is harder than other jobs but it takes at least 3 years of uni + one year's postgrad, and then 2 years training, which amounts to a lot of debt. It does tend to also be high pressure and hour intensive. The ones that work in the city will not have a life for years.

I am sure some people go into law just for the money, some because of genuine interest (in judicial systems, or practicing law or human rights or whatever). For me it was a combination, I enjoy the work and loved the study (was briefly toying with following an academic path), but of course the fact I would hopefully have a decent quality of life was a factor is pursuing it. As I am sure it is for many people who enter professions of all kinds.

No, I am not pretending that. In fact I am saying exactly the opposite and don't think there should be a suggestion that if you are not "successful" it's your own fault/ lack of effort or whatever. There are lots of things I couldn't do. And I am under no illusion that much of what I have achieved was due to luck (privilege, upbringing, genetics, etc).

In a capitalist society skills will never be celebrated equally in terms of salary. That doesn't mean we need to look down on people who aren't (financially) successful. I also don't think the two are the same thing.

There have to be enough jobs in all areas that pay enough wages to rent a room in a shared house, pay a share of bills, pay for a phone, food, transport, and something left over for a little bit of fun occasionally in order for that to be achieved. And nobody can have a child, of course.

I’m neurodivergent- was undiagnosed as a child. Horrendous childhood trauma, neglect, emotional abuse and poverty. I have CPTSD. I never thought I’d amount to much and neither did anyone else. However, I was lucky enough to be born with way above average intellect and curiosity as well as grit and resilience. I studied and worked and I have a very successful career and married someone very similar. I’m another ‘success story’ - but I do not believe that everyone can overcome all of those kinds of obstacles. Not because I’m better than others, but it is very hard to do so. There is an extent to which the cards have to fall in the right way. I still suffer with my mental health and have been told by two different psychiatrists that most people with my past are in prison, abusing drugs, or dead. People like your CEO and me are exceptions to the rule. It makes for a great story and sounds inspirational but doesnt illustrate the suffering along the way as well and also makes it look achievable for anyone who ‘works hard’ - it’s not. Perhaps just one more challenge - and I’d not have made it.

There are people who work extra hours and do second jobs to make ends meet.

There are. Do you think they should do that their whole lives and deprive themselves of any social life for their entire working life so as not to take a bit of support from someone paid 2/3/4/5/6+ times minimum wage?

These stats are a bit misleading - I suspect that the reality is that the median wage is really quite low in and of itself, because the UK average wage, is low. If you exclude the south east the vast majority are on under 40k.
The real picture is of wage levels all very clustered around a range that's quite low.

Delula sorry but some people with the best will in the world are unable to be confident people or achieve more than the minimum in life A lot depends on your abilities probably level of intelligence and confidence Not everyone has an equal chance Some struggle to read or follow instructions Some are unstable

Start training people to do what they can and forget wasting kids time in school teaching them about the Anglo saxens the Tudors fossil fuels etc

Why is that a waste of time? We do t all want to live in a country full of ignorant people.
It’s Saxons incidentally