Can we stop acting like everyone has an equal capability to become well off?

[DeluluTaylor]

Based on the pension thread but not about OP. All this ‘why do people spend their whole lives on MW’ is so woefully ignorant. Some people don’t have a choice.
Neurodiversity
confidence
childcare availability
institutional racism
learning disabilities
trauma and it’s impact
Lifelong insecure housing
Being able to speak English but not write it
So many, many reasons why it is difficult to climb up the ladder. I’ve never been able to as I don’t have the right skills for management. But the world needs more worker bees than managers!
Who do they think should do these jobs?

You said success is 'totally luck' which it means it had nothing to do with any effort the person has put in. That is dismissive.

Seem to me all the opportunities are going to people from Chinese, Indian, African or Bangladeshi backgrounds. They are naturally smarter than us and work harder, so need a quota system to level up unfair system.

What do you mean a quota system to level things up?

All right, you've made your point. Yes people deserve to be credited for hard work. But that doesn't negate the fact that luck has an impact to a point. You seem to have not read the other posts I wrote.

And yes, luck can absolutely influence the course of someone's life regardless of how hard working they are. But we've covered that, so...eh.

Not all opportunities. Yes, they tend to be smarter and harder working. But just because they are doesn't automatically mean they get greater chances of success.😳

Some people on this thread arent just encouraging people to do their best and strive for more though, are they? They are actively suggesting that if you don’t or can’t advance it’s a personal failing. That’s not the case, because if the macro level situation to which you refer.

You can't get to the top without working hard and taking the right decisions.
Working hard and making the right decisions will not get you to the top without luck
This exactly. You put it much better than I managed to, @Imdunfer

Well no not at all, I wasn’t reflecting on the thread but the OP’s initial point about when advice is given elsewhere.

It's not that being good at school is all it takes. It's that it's is a pre-requisite. You then also need to make some focused decisions and still work hard. Deciding to study English over something like law, medicine, or engineering, was never going to give you a well paying career. You chose to study something as a hobby. Others choose to study something they don't like but that has a higher likelihood of a well paid career.

Do people actually study something they don't like, and go on to do a career they hate?
What a waste of life.

Totally agree. There seems to be a lack of understanding of the difference between education and training in that post too - and in society in general in fairness. It’s sad.

Maybe someone isn't as good at the sciences or maths to make a career out of it? 😳

I chose art history as a degree because I am crap at maths and not really great at science. My eldest DD is brilliant at all subjects so will have a broader career to choose from.

Not everyone has a level playing field or excels in their chosen path. The arts aren't really ever going to pay well for most people unless they are absolutely driven to work at a cut throat company or something.

Nonsense. I was making the point that people who have the same intellectual abilities and opportunities also have personal agency and make decisions which lead to different outcomes.

writing a post does not oblige anyone to consider and cover every possible variable.

my specific post was in the context of pensions (which is something the OP was basing her post on) and people I know who have made choices to work part time long term. Not just for a few years but in some cases never returning to full time work after having kids. I also mentioned the choice between actively looking for promotion, with a harder role and more responsibility, or choosing to work at a lower, but less well paid level.

I explicitly said there is no judgement here, people are entitled to make their own choices, but that this can be one reason why people will end up with a much smaller pension and thereby a lower standard of living later on.

the fact that I didn’t also write about other reasons is not an ‘enormous hole.’ You’re not a teacher assessing an essay which requires that!

Where did I say a career they "hate"? It's an extremely privileged position to think you can pursue your passion and think you will be a high earner.

Yes, many young people, myself included made decisions also based on future earnings potential.

I never said it's a level playing field. I was challenging the OP who is arguing that an English degree should have brought her a high salary and it's absolutely bollocks.

If you are poor, school is the way out. It's your escape route. It certainly was mine. But you do have to follow with other savvy decisions as well.

My point was that WITHOUT school, it's extremely difficult to lift yourself out of poverty down the line. School makes it easier, it gives you a leg up you don't otherwise have.

And what's so wrong about people willing to work extremely hard in a cut throat environment? Why should they not get rewarded for doing something others are not willing to do?

I am not sure how someone who does not actually want to study medicine, but is thinking of their future earnings, somehow convinces a university to accept them considering how competitive medicine is to get into. You need a lot more than perfect GCSE and A-levels results.

Some people don't want a massive house, flashy cars and holidays. They just want to do an honest days work that they can totally forget about until they are next in... one that covers their outgoings and maybe not much more. There is more to life than pushing yourself to earn the most you can.

There's nothing wrong with that at all. I didn't say there was.

Working hard in a cut throat industry isnt for everyone though. It might mean that they burn out faster, or the pressure is too much.

I agree with the PP who said that sometimes someone might choose a lesser paid job with fewer responsibilities, but they feel happy. Nothing wrong with that either if it means better mental health and life work balance.

I agree that success if subjective. I think in the context of this thread it has been successful career/ money focused, but I entirely agree that is not true for everyone.

I don't think it's so crazy to pick a degree based on future earning potential. I studied law, I did have a genuine interest in law but I - of course - also considered where my degree would leave me in terms of potential career and salary. I would probably much rather have studied history, but didn't fancy myself as a history teacher which, at the time, was all I could really see coming out of that. I wanted a clear career path to a career that would have potential to give me certain quality of life (in reality you can now just as easily go into law studying history than law with conversion courses etc).

Incidentally I have not followed the most lucrative path for a lawyer, but am happy with where I am, and the quality of life I can joy by not having done that.

@adlitembut you’re not pretending that we all would be able to succeed in any subject. I can’t draw or paint. I can’t easily complete maths equations. Other people can’t write poetry like me or sing like my friend, or play multiple instruments. Wouldn’t it be great if all skills were celebrated equally? Why should social work pay so much less than being a solicitor?

Who is "us"?

No, nothing wrong with it. But the point of the thread is about the ability to become well off financially.

I have certainly prioritised money over my physical well-being and momentary happiness at times. A lot of my profesional decisions as a student and as an adult had money / financial stability in mind.

You might wish to celebrate all skills equally, but it makes no sense to remunerate them all equally. There are some jobs which are incredibly difficult, involve high stakes responsibility, take years of training for. Some jobs are far easier.
Personally I think there are many jobs where people do deserve a higher wage, but it’s ridiculous to suggest all jobs deserve equal pay. If they were, you can bet your life there’d be hordes of people wanting the easy jobs and hardly anyone wanting the tougher ones!

If social workers want higher pay why didn't they train to be a solicitor

@BlueJuniper94but we need both!! Who would solicitors work for if everyone was solicitors? Plus what do all these high flying people do in there spare time? Watch plays, listen to music, go to art galleries, read books, listen to podcasts, laugh at comedy… all created by people who have different sorts of brains. How boring would the world be if we were all logical, STEM graduates or if there was no creative people? Is that really what you want?