Can we stop acting like everyone has an equal capability to become well off?

[DeluluTaylor]

Based on the pension thread but not about OP. All this ‘why do people spend their whole lives on MW’ is so woefully ignorant. Some people don’t have a choice.
Neurodiversity
confidence
childcare availability
institutional racism
learning disabilities
trauma and it’s impact
Lifelong insecure housing
Being able to speak English but not write it
So many, many reasons why it is difficult to climb up the ladder. I’ve never been able to as I don’t have the right skills for management. But the world needs more worker bees than managers!
Who do they think should do these jobs?

There is no shortage of people wanting to do MW work right now, as the job market is awful.

And if you were paid more, vet fees would go up more and people would complain about that. You can't win.

Excellent point, mmw at ft should absolutely pay enough to not need UC top ups - when do you want to start paying more for the services that are delivered by these roles so that can be the case?
Or do you just want to use the services at the price they are now, and then bitch about people needing UC to survive on the wage?

Well, I worked sodding hard at school and university. I thought I'd get a better deal in life because of it.

I'm not being dismissive of those who work hard and make sacrifices for themselves, and do well. Of course, this has a huge impact on the results and it makes sense that their own efforts pay off.

But don't forget, for some reasons, other people work damn hard but still don't really get to see the results of their efforts.

And yes, maybe I do sound a bit bitter about it all, but sorry for that, being injured isnt fun. You can acknowledge that life has dealt a bad hand and feel bitter. I am allowed to feel upset.

Daft isn't it.
Someone in low paid work does a vital job, but they deserve to live in poverty for not trying to do better.
Thank goodness we have a welfare system that allows someone who works full time to still afford to live.

Wow.

you can be what you want to be.

Sorry, but that is a lie, and you do children a disservice to tell them that when young... "you can be anything if you put your mind to it".
It is bull, and harmful.

I have a decent degree but I am currently low paid part time due to bad luck. In that I came back from mat leave a few weeks before COVID after 10 years of working my way up, the company shuttered the first week of lockdown and the industry has never recovered. I have tried a couple of things since, but I won't find anything that I loved like I did that job.

I'll work my way back up one day but doing it while parenting a preschooler has not been the time.

You said it is totally luck.

Dismissive and contemptuous of the progress of others springs to mind.

Life isn't fair.

I am allowed to feel upset.

But should you be allowed to tear down others who are doing what they should be doing, many of whom did not get the start that you had?

What happens if they're passionate about a job that will never pay well?

I have never told mine or any children that can do anything if they put their mind to it. I said to my children be happy in life, don’t worry about money.

you have your opinion and I have mine. I don’t understand why you think that in the U.K., in the 21st Century where we have freedom of choice etc etc that people can’t do what they choose.

My work colleague and friend was 58, living in a rented bedsit, and thankfully to home computers she set up a small side hustle, which turned out to be a very lucrative business and if she was a child now they would say she was autistic.

Another gentleman at work bought clipper lighters wholesale and sold them on eBay as sets and used to make a fair bit of money until Royal Mail stopped accepting gas filled appliances - he had paid off his mortgage, bought his wife a Dacia Sandero Access, and topped up his pension. His wife did all the writing work as he could barely read and write his own name!

if life deals you lemons, make lemonade.

Of course not. Obviously others who put in the effort should be recognised for the rewards of their labour.

But why did you seem to take it from my post that was totally dismissive of everyone's efforts?

It is totally luck, combined with genes and having the right circumstances/background.

It’s not at all an accurate analogy though.

People are thinking of a job market as if it is snapshot in time of a single company’s org chart, with one person at the top and more and more people in the levels below, stuck there forever. It’s not.

According to the Office for National Statistics, only 2.5% of jobs in the U.K. are low paid (earning less than two-thirds of the median hourly wage). In the pyramid analogy, this means the pyramid is inverted. There are 40 times more jobs at the top (the higher paid end) than at the bottom (the lower paid end).^

Similarly, around a third of low-paid workers are aged 16–21. When you include under-25s, it’s likely closer to half. This shows minimum-wage work is heavily concentrated among young people at the start of their careers, which directly contradicts the idea that most people remain stuck there permanently.

Of course some people won’t be able to do other work, and of course some people will choose not to, but there is very little evidence to support the idea that the majority cannot or will not progress to higher paid jobs over time.

^ note: in reality that inverted pyramid is more like a sphere if you actually did the graph, but that’s starting to over complicate it.

@Peridoteage “people should have become more productive and worth more…”

I am assuming by “worth more” you mean “earning more”…but are you saying that people working minimum wage jobs are not productive members of society?

They are.

They generate less output per unit of labour

So by a flawed metric of money they don’t generate enough

but money should simply be a tool used by us ?

why do we value productivity- making crap that makes people feel bad that they can’t afford it and destroys the planet - over people who help make others feel better?

money controls you ? Arse about tit

What are you on about?

The most damaging lie ever told to a generation of children.

Generally because a lot of caring jobs are paid for from the public purse so need tax and taxes come from the private sector - people making crap no-one needs (among other things) and selling it at a profit and paying tax on those profits and the workers who make them paying income tax. The public sector can recycle money but it doesn't directly generate it. The problem with economic models that drive towards lower consumption (eliminate the stuff people don't need like nail varnish and decorative throws) is that they shrink the tax base which means less money for the things that people want like healthcare, eldercare and education. There is an argument that if people worked less they could take on these caring roles themselves but it's hard to shrink an economy in an orderly way which is why despite the arguments for more sustainable consumption, no government is going to attempt a drive towards it.

Everyone who is not physically or mentally disabled or looking after disabled relatives can and should go out into the world and make their own success and be self sufficient and not rely on the taxpayer forever. Needing it in an emergency is fine. Needing it till you're back on your feet is fine. But I don't think anyone should rely on the state for their entire working life.

What a strange post!

Productivity doesn't just relate to making unessential, frivolous stuff but essential goods and services too. Anything that you rely on other people to do or make for you. So carers for our most vulnerable, hospital workers, people producing plumbing components and people repairing potholes. If someone paints three park benches instead of two in a day then this has an obvious benefit to society. If a consultant can see 20 patients instead of 15 then this could have a huge impact on those individuals and potentially save lives. If we can buy essential goods when we need them then this will improve all our quality of lives and prevent some really dire situations. Who wants to run out of toilet roll or milk?

Have you ever considered how the worked would function in a completely unproductive world or where money didn't exist? Do you really think it would be better?

More help in school and work experience in school instead of learning about the Tudors and other pointless lessons Children could be given work experience once they are at secondary school If they leave school knowing what they can or can't do i think that would be betterp