DD’s birthday was an utter disaster

[bendmeoverbackwards]

It’s DD’s 19th birthday today. She’s ASD and has been out of education for a few years.

Last couple of birthdays have been disappointing to her and I know this one brought up a lot of emotion not just about birthdays but also her situation in general.

I asked her a few weeks ago if she wanted to see a particular show and a meal at a steak place. She just said no but gave no other suggestions. I then asked last week of she wanted just a meal out and where - no response. So I decided to book a local restaurant just in case as Saturday nights get busy, with the option of cancelling if she didn’t want to.

When I told her, she wasn’t happy and said she couldn’t do it now because I’d chosen it (autistic brain). I asked where else she’d like to go but didn’t get a reply. I suggested a takeaway, took hours of questions about this, she didn’t see a takeaway as a birthday celebration. She eventually decided on pizza.

I also got her a beautiful personalised cake. Last year for her 18th, I got her a nice chocolate cake with her name on but it didn’t have the same personalisation as her older sister’s 18th birthday cake (which was celebrated in lockdown so I pushed the boat out a bit). Also the board base was accidentally thrown out when there was a tiny bit of chocolate left on it. She complained about this for months. I said I would buy her an extra cake (cheapy supermarket cake) but I forgot.

Now she says she can’t have this year’s cake because of the lack of the other one and it would be in the wrong order (autistic brain again).

Choosing presents is also difficult for her so I chose a few small gifts and paid in £50 birthday money into her account. She didn’t like this either, she wanted to choose her own presents (but from past experience she takes ages to choose, months and months, so I thought I’d make it easier by giving her money).

Written down, I realise she sounds like a spoilt brat. But I didn’t do some things that I said I would eg buy her an additional cake and take her for a belated birthday meal (from last year).

The evening ended with her sobbing in the kitchen and me losing my temper 😢

Can you explain to her that the only logical and reliable thing she can do is to judge a person based on what they are actually saying and doing, not what you think they are saying in subtextual ways?

It’s very unfair to judge a person on tone, so could you get her to think through how she’d feel if someone judged her by her tone of voice, and accused her of ill intent? Try to get her to understand what it would feel like to be at the receiving end of her behaviour (logically and calmly, not by stooping to her level!) - the old do as you would be done by maxim.

Non Violent Communication might also help you if you’re not familiar with it. It often feels very heavy handed but it’s a very good way of navigating difficult conversations well, and ensuring that the other person hears what you’re actually saying and you hear what they are trying to say. It also has quite a clear framework and formulas, which if she is ASD she might find helpful. The book by Marshall Rosenberg is a straight forward and easy read, but many places also offer classes which you could attend together if your daughter was on board. Either way, it’s a very helpful and thought provoking resource.

I would calmly explain that saying (xyz) is not being mean, horrible or unreasonable and you don't understand why she would say that.

If she doesn't like your tone, explain why you are using it eg you've asked her 3 times to load the dishwasher/vacuum the stairs/peel the potatoes and she still hasn't done it. That is frustrating.

Or maybe your tone reflects that you're tired after working hard all day.

If she bangs on about how you ruined her education, list all the ways you helped and supported her. And all the options that are still open to her.

Time for some tough love before she really does miss most of her opportunities.

So because your neighbour has a child who is autistic and acts in a particular way you are extrapolating that to the entire autistic population???
People are different. They have different strengths and experience different things as challenging or even impossible. And that goes for autistic people too

Yes. That’s absolutely what that shows. You are her supporter and enabler. She knows however unreasonably she behaves you will try to make it right for her (you’ve just agreed to sorting 2 years worth of birthday and Christmas gifts even though you know this won’t work. You agree to buy a whole additional cake to compensate for a tiny bit of cake being thrown out). You’re her mum so I get it.
I would take a step back and allow DH to lead on her care. I would not let her swear at DH and I’d stop the conversation if she did. You need to support your DH not undermine him. Work as a team. She is dividing and ruling.
You definitely shouldn’t make her homeless or force her to do things if she doesn’t want to but you and DH need to reset and you need to use this bonkers birthday as the trigger. Set boundaries and expectations.
Sit her down together. Tell her you love her but as she is transitioning to adulthood and independence things at home will have to change. Tell her that within the next 6 months she needs to have started an access course/ got a regular job/ started volunteering or learning a skill. Her choice but it has to be something with a sense of purpose. There has to be a consequence for not doing so. End of allowance / no phone. You absolutely have to hold firm on this.
if you suggest a treat or birthday idea, she is free to reject it but you won’t suggest anything else. It’s up to her to say what she wants. Gifts will be purchased when she tells you what she wants. You won’t second guess her. If that means nothing to unwrap on the day, so be it.
she needs love but she needs boundaries and she needs to be treated as an adult.
if she is snobbish about college and access courses, call her out. It’s not acceptable. If she blames you for her diagnosis, challenge her. Tell her it is the opinion of medics not you.
You are only trying to help her but if she won’t accept the help, that’s fine. That’s her decision.
Then tell her you are at the end of your rope. You are stepping back a bit for you own mental health and DH is primary point of contact.
Do not pander to her excessively. Don’t discuss everything excessively. Just shut it down and tell her you’ll discuss it when she engages sensibly and shows that she is trying to help herself.
being ASD doesn’t stop you being badly behaved and reinforcing the role as the baby of the family.
Good luck. This is your turning point and your bonkers pandering to her is enabling her.

If it's any comfort OP, my attendance at school at 15-18 was probably less than 40%. I suffered dreadful anxiety and depression and was also an academic snob and was devastated when I didn't achieve as well as I should have. I was also ridiculously hard to please and often awful to my mum. By 19 I'd swallowed my pride and started a college course. Went on to get a 1st class honours degree followed by a distinction in my teacher training. Happily married, home owner with baby and successful career now. Don't think anyone would have believed I'd make it to this point looking at me as a teenager. Keep the faith for your DD!

I'm not sure what more you could have done. You gave her suggestions, booked a place just encase and left it open for her to come up with something. You're running out of options. I would find it difficult too when you're just trying your best and she can't see that :(

I would be quite direct. I would tell her that it is not mean or horrible not to give in to her every whim or to have a different point of view from her. That she is mischaracterising what is going on, which is unfair to both of you as it paints you in an unflattering light and prevents a reasonable conversation. And that you think she does this because it has made you give in in the past, but that you will not be giving in in future because it is manipulative. So you will be working with her to help solve her issues but will not tolerate emotional blackmail.

You say matter of factly “I am not being mean or horrible. I’m asking you to do something that I need you to do to keep the house running smoothly/ keep good relationships going etc. You are an adult and you have to take responsibility for your behaviour. This is a perfectly reasonable expectation for a parent to have of a 19 year old”.
Do this on repeat. Ditch the guilt - that’s her best weapon and just be loving and normal. Parent her through this transition. Don’t parent her as an 11 year old. You need to remove some of her power for her own good. You’re raising a despot.

So lovely to hear for those of us supporting teens or worrying that those first steps towards a future will work.

Thank you, I’m so glad I started this thread. It’s been eye opening and made me realise I’ve been making excuses for too long. I do want to try and maintain a loving connection with her though in spite of new boundaries. That will be the tricky bit.

You could ask her how you can make it up to her and what you would need to do - see if offering her an olive branch helps, otherwise you'll just feel shit for doing what you thought was best and maybe you really can't find a win/win situation.

I'm so sorry you're having a hard time x

You are confusing love with trying to make everything right. You can’t. You love her unconditionally and she needs to know that. You do this by telling her. But you can’t fix her life for her. You can’t be both the problem and the solution.
she is miserable-understandably so. It’s no kind of existence. But she is refusing to take responsibility for her life. She’s blaming you. Your guilt means you are lapping this up.
We all make mistakes as parents. When we do, we say sorry. We move on.
Loving her means helping her foster her independence. Praising her when she takes responsibility. It’s not buying a chocolate cake with her name on, then another chocolate cake, then a Colin caterpillar cake and then a fancy personalised cake like her sister’s, none of which she will eat because they have been presented in the wrong order. It’s not buying two years worth of Christmas and birthday presents when there are already unopened gifts in the living room. This is ultimately going to make her (and you) feel worse. Can you not see how disordered your relationship with her is?

Love is not continually pandering to her every whim.

I'm glad you are going to have counselling yourself and with your husband. I think you should explore why you feel this irrational sense of guilt towards her.

Were you on the fence about having a third child? Did you plan her? Did you feel like she got less of your attention as a baby because you had older children to deal with? Why does she trigger you so much?

As a previous poster said, your relationship with her seems very disordered. Do you fear her accusing you of not loving her? Or her saying she doesn't love you?

You are clearly a loving mother who is trying to be a good parent. Sometimes you will fail. That's ok. We don't have to be perfect and children do need to learn at some point that their parents are people, fallible and mortal.

And before she learns the final lesson that you are mortal, she needs to be able to stand on her own two feet and function in life.

The good news is:
You and your husband sound like you can be a team on this and can access counselling to support both of you in doing this. This is really important - you need to plan an approach together and maintain it. Potentially also discuss with her siblings so they can also reiterate a consistent message to her that it is time for her to get on with life and that she is capable of doing so.

She is still only 19. She isn't that odd in her peer group by living at home. She can catch up with her peers.

She is capable of looking after small children competently which suggests she is capable of putting someone's needs first and of presenting as a competent adult.

I think you maybe write or send her an email from you and her dad as a united front so that she has an explanation of why things will be different from now on.

I’d tell the truth that the recent birthday caused you to reflect how everyone is unhappy and want to make some changes to make it better in future.

I’d say that I love her and always will and I just want the best for her but I have made mistakes in the past because I am human. I would say that I have realised that I might be putting too much pressure on her with my career suggestions and so I will stop making them but that I do want to see some progress from her towards becoming an independent adult during this year so that by next birthday everyone feels happier.

To that end I will stop her allowance by x date (eg in 2 or 3 months) because I don’t want to encourage the current situation to continue as it is making her unhappy in the long term. I will carry on providing her room, basic food and bills but I will no longer pay for clothes, toiletries, extra food etc as the reality is that a person aged 19 needs to pay for these things themselves from earnings, benefits or educational grants/ loans. If she gets a job or is studying then I will carry on/ reinstate the allowance as I am happy to support constructive activities but not the current status quo of doing nothing.

I will not make any suggestions about college courses or jobs unless she comes to me and asks for my help on a specific matter in which case I will be very happy to assist or advise but I will not take the lead or do it for her. If she chooses not to move forward on any of these options then I think that’s an unwise decision and therefore one that I will not support financially but I respect her right to make that choice. There is a reality that dad and I will retire in x years and will no longer be able to financially support you hence you need to start working towards independence now.

I will expect a contribution to the household as it is unfair that dad and I are working and yet we are also doing all the housework plus I want you to be prepared with independent living skills. I will no longer do any laundry/ clean your room or clean up any mess you make in communal areas (if you currently do those things).

I’d explain that I realise she will not like these changes and that she may think I am being mean and horrible but in fact I am doing this out of love and care because I want her to be happier in the future

If she says that it’s all my fault for ruining her education/ throwing away a cake board or whatever I will say that I am not interested in discussing what has happened in the past only in making things better in future. I will not entertain any discussion of the past as I don’t think it is helpful to her to dwell on it.

If she says ‘I will harm myself or kill my self’ then I would say that I am very sorry that she is so unhappy and distressed and I want that to change and that I would support her having mental health help as part of the plan if she wants that. She can call 111 option 2, self refer to NHS Talking therapies, call a MH helpline like Samaritans, see the GP or go to A&E if she wants help with her mental health. Again I can only suggest these options and will not do any of them for her.

"That's the way you feel. When you're older you will understand that my actions are in your interest. I want you to be someone other people want to be around and for that to happen you need to learn how to behave nicely to other people, including me, even though you are frustrated."

Something along the lines, of “I am not being horrible to you, I am your parent and it is my job to do what is best for you. Even if you don’t like it now, you will thank me in the future. I want you to be happy and fulfilled and to be a useful member of society. Plus your Dad and I won’t be here forever. So that’s why things have to change.”

Snappy- “I am a normal person with emotions, not a mum-bot, and you are being rude and ungrateful. I am entitled to feel angry and upset when I am trying to help you and you are insulting me or throwing my help back in my face. From now on you can do X on your own.”

Oh there’s no doubt she will hate it OP. She has been spoiled rotten and this will come as a huge shock. Most parents have been saying no and consistently delivering these sorts of messages throughout a child’s life - your DD will get it all in one go.

You already know that she’s deeply manipulative and controlling so she will likely use all the tools in her arsenal to get her own way again. Expect histrionics, personal attacks, guilt trips, threats. You must ignore - be calm and strong throughout.

Google failure to launch in adult children.. and read up on codependency as you’re demonstrating a lot of codependent behaviours too. You’re disabling her further by enabling her and not allowing her to face the consequences of her actions/choices. Feeling sorry for her and protecting her too much isn’t helping her develop. Have a Google and also read up about the drama triangle. You’re both dancing around that big time. You’re swinging between rescuer and victim and she’s bouncing between persecutor and victim. It only takes one of you (you) to stop the drama dance.

@Dumpspirospero
Your advice is excellent.
OP, I hope you take heed to it.

Your DD is probably terrified and has been for a few years.
Her fear seems to stem from her belief that there is shame in having an ASD label and this conflicts with her belief that she can achieve well. That conflict is the root of her twisted thinking. She has to realise that ND students can access and belong at university just the same as NT students. But they all have to work hard and have courage.

Her reaction to that fear is to keep you manipulated into showing endless (and sometimes rather pointless) love for her.
Your guilt and her easy manipulation has become an unhealthy and repeated pattern out of habit.
Keeping you on your toes works for her in the moment but doesn’t move her forward into adulthood at all. Nor does it challenge her.
For you, it doesn't work on any level at all and you are at the end of your tether trying to keep up with her ever more impossible demands.

She is quite capable of moving forward OP. She is capable of new thinking and overcoming new challenges.

You need to be calm, confident and very firm in breaking that cycle. It’s clear you love her so make those necessary changes out of love for her future successful life, rather than for the manipulative girl you are letting her continue to be right now.
Good luck!

You need to be calm, confident and very firm in breaking that cycle. It’s clear you love her so make those necessary changes out of love for her future successful life, rather than for the manipulative girl you are letting her continue to be right now.
Good luck!

I think this is it. You need to steer the ship and she needs the sense of safety that provides.

You need to find a way to step outside of the years of guilt.

Draw a line under everything for you and for her. You are not her emotional sponge and you are not her punching bag..

There's no point justifying any choices you made to her while she still sees life through her current lense. There is no good you going back over old ground while you see things through your current lense as you will just the yourself in knots.

About hindsight - You will look back in a few years and see things differently than you do now but actually that won't be a real reflection of what you are going through and will depend on the imaginary scenario of your daughter responding perfectly to whatever course of action might have replaced the one you actually took. If that makes sense?

So in the past which you now see differently, The behaviour of your daughter at the time led you to feel that she wouldn't go through an autism assessment knowingly and also you felt the benefits of having it trumped not having it. You saw it bringing much needed help and support to your daughter. You had no control over how the school responded or how your daughter responded. You simply did the bit that you felt was best. What you did was good enough .
In life, it's rare that a decision is all right or all wrong and I believe this was one of the decisions where there were many shades of grey. She is now out of the school environment and can choose whether or not to share it if she goes to college or uni or starts work.

Yes. I have a child of a similar age with autism, adhd and eupd. We have had years of self harm and suicidal ideation.
People with autism can be very controlling which I think is what's going on here. It's due to anxiety. But you don't have to let it.
I would do away with all this owing birthday cakes etc, as other people have said, people make mistakes. I think you need a bit of tough love with her.
My child has plans for the future that are just 'kicking the can down the road ' type thing that means they dont have to act now. Could this be the case here.
I would encourage the baby sitting, voluntary work and working on life skills.

I totally get it. I have a daughter who’s 19 and is also autistic. Birthdays are tough. As her mum I want her to have all the bells and whistles that other people have but that’s my daughters idea of hell. The anxiety and sensory overload that it causes her is overwhelming. Her birthday is done how she wants it. Last year she had lunch with a couple of friends in town and takeaway KFC with us then a cake that she picked herself in Asda but then didn’t eat any because it was too chocolatey. We gave her a book she wanted but it took her months to read it because she couldn’t handle the pressure of reading it straight away. It’s so hard as mum to get it right and even harder when autism plays a huge role in making them happy. Don’t beat yourself up over this. Next year will be different and hopefully better. Sending you huge hugs because us mums with autism in the family need them some days.

Thank you all so much, I am truly grateful for all the advice and insight.

Someone asked if I was autistic - not diagnosed but I do think I am. So does dh and dd2 was recently diagnosed. I do sometimes struggle to see nuance. And I like the ‘right’ answer to things. It drives me mad when people say you have to do what’s right for your family, I often don’t know! Plus I grew up in quite chaotic circumstances and my mother was not a good role model. She couldn’t stick to boundaries and would then lose her shit and yell at me. And tell me what an awful person I was. Struggled with my self esteem for years. And I didn’t have enough confidence in my parenting. But my dd2 tells me she had a lovely childhood and feels grateful to have such supportive parents so I must have done something right. Dd1 and dd2 were pretty easy kids but I knew my parenting of dd3 had to be a bit different.

I wouldn't underestimate how much the fear of her harming/killing herself has affected your actions and decision-making.

From what you have said, it would appear she uses the threat to manipulate you. She will probably say it again, as she is going to be furious at your new approach. Stay strong, tell her that any threat of self harm will result in you calling the emergency services.
Good luck 💐

@Shrinkhole's advice is excellent. She could also apply for UC but she'd be exepct to show she was looking for work until she was deemed 'low capacity for work'.
She also might be entitled to pip. She would hace to accept her diagnosis though.
Work on the life skills and the independence skills.