DD’s birthday was an utter disaster

[bendmeoverbackwards]

It’s DD’s 19th birthday today. She’s ASD and has been out of education for a few years.

Last couple of birthdays have been disappointing to her and I know this one brought up a lot of emotion not just about birthdays but also her situation in general.

I asked her a few weeks ago if she wanted to see a particular show and a meal at a steak place. She just said no but gave no other suggestions. I then asked last week of she wanted just a meal out and where - no response. So I decided to book a local restaurant just in case as Saturday nights get busy, with the option of cancelling if she didn’t want to.

When I told her, she wasn’t happy and said she couldn’t do it now because I’d chosen it (autistic brain). I asked where else she’d like to go but didn’t get a reply. I suggested a takeaway, took hours of questions about this, she didn’t see a takeaway as a birthday celebration. She eventually decided on pizza.

I also got her a beautiful personalised cake. Last year for her 18th, I got her a nice chocolate cake with her name on but it didn’t have the same personalisation as her older sister’s 18th birthday cake (which was celebrated in lockdown so I pushed the boat out a bit). Also the board base was accidentally thrown out when there was a tiny bit of chocolate left on it. She complained about this for months. I said I would buy her an extra cake (cheapy supermarket cake) but I forgot.

Now she says she can’t have this year’s cake because of the lack of the other one and it would be in the wrong order (autistic brain again).

Choosing presents is also difficult for her so I chose a few small gifts and paid in £50 birthday money into her account. She didn’t like this either, she wanted to choose her own presents (but from past experience she takes ages to choose, months and months, so I thought I’d make it easier by giving her money).

Written down, I realise she sounds like a spoilt brat. But I didn’t do some things that I said I would eg buy her an additional cake and take her for a belated birthday meal (from last year).

The evening ended with her sobbing in the kitchen and me losing my temper 😢

They say they can’t do anything unless there is an actual threat of action. Which is a very different thing from someone saying they ‘should’ kill themself isn’t it?

You're enabling her behaviour and I'm curious about your own apathy around putting firmer boundaries in place.
She still rules the roost and I think there's something quite cosy for her in wallowing in this bubble of codependency with you.
Autism isn't an excuse for arrogant entitlement and spoilt tantrums.

I think these will be caused by intense anxiety.

What do you think ASD is? Just someone being a bit weird?

Intense anxiety plays a huge part in ASD. This results in avoidance and refusal to face facts. You can keep trying, but the anxiety overrules everything. This is what results in the desire for control.

I'm Autistic, as are my daughters, so have a pretty good idea of Autism being more than someone who is a 'bit weird'.

@bendmeoverbackwards I’ve read your updates, and it sounds so difficult. I have some experience of similar.

I’m wondering if it might not be autism alone but perhaps a coexisting mental illness too. I know you’ve tried to get her to see a doctor though, without success, I guess just keep trying on that.

I do absolutely understand your fear about pushing her, but this is your family home and you need to transmit your values. And that is surely that you are always either in work or study and that you make your contribution. If she’s a snob about things being beneath her then maybe have a strong chat with her about the statistics - a person who is not in employment before the age of 24 is statistically unlikely to ever work. That means her entire life chances will be set in the next 5 years.

She needs to make a plan. If she mentioned suicide again you need to call the crisis team/an ambilance. Of course take it seriously, but don’t let her use it as a threat.

Potentially - but it’s her that needs to see you taking it seriously and not letting her use it as a tool for manipulation

Of course not, but threatening suicide is a well known manipulation tactic.

If you are indeed going to take up some of these very good suggestions of how to move forward, you have to be prepared for more threats. Because up until now they have worked for your dd to get her own way.

She isn't going to like any of the changes.
So at the first threat, take action. Get her to A&E like you were advised to. And every time going forward.

You cannot carry on like this OP. You NEED to make changes for the sake of your mental health and your other children. You said your DH disagrees with your approach, so let him step up and lay down the law. You don't need to be the bad guy all on your own. You need to be a team and stick with it.

Having a ND kid myself, it really does get under my skin when someone uses ND as an excuse for manipulative behaviour. I have put in the hard work since dc was a small child in order for him to function as best as he can as an adult in the adult world. It wasn't easy and at times I also just felt like giving in. I'm talking therapy, Dr's visits that were hours travel time, routines, consequences, coping skills etc etc. He has never once used his diagnosis as an excuse in life or expected special treatment.

It was a lot, but I see now how much it was worth it.

If she is PDA she will need complete autonomy so best off not making plans unless instigated by her. Frustrating I know but she can’t help it.

Then I really can't understand why you thought pushing the birthday thing was a good idea

Well the presents that have been bought can go in her room and she can thank you for them or go to charity. She can sign on in the morning and start engaging with life or be very hard up very quickly. I’d suggest she learns to drive and takes some exercise. She can clean the house till she is working or studying. Start by showing her exactly how to clean the kitchen, and build from there.

So it’s only at home she’s rude and lazy. And from your posts you’re willing to let her continue this way. So why on earth did you come on here when you’ve ignored every suggestion and justified the way she is. I can’t believe you’re giving her any financial allowance. A madam who spends her days in bed, and when she does venture into the family setting causes grief and mayhem.

I remember that thread about her calling a sibling it and thing. I wonder if she's also in addition to autism not a very nice person and that's something a lot harder to deal with.

On a practical level you need an exit plan from this set up.

Hi OP, I'm not sure you've said roughly what age you and DH are but if your DC's got older siblings I'm guessing 50s?

I wonder if retirement planning with DH might help a bit. Presumably you will not want a moody, unemployed adult child hanging around at that point!

I had my DC at 40 and my DH is older, so it's much on my mind that I may want to retire around the time she finishes school. It's definitely going to help me focus on ensuring that she has work, life skills, a living situation that doesn't directly involve me, etc.

Maybe reframing this more as a family project might help you.

Yes, as @WhatNoRaisins says - an exit plan - exactly!

OP what sings out from your posts is how you take everything she says at face value. There’s no seeing any nuance and manipulation there, she says something and so you seem to think then that it must be true - that she must know what she thinks or how she feels AND that she knows at some level what she needs, and therefore it’s your responsibility to provide it.

Could that be a possibility?

Her threatening suicide when things don't go her way sounds very much like another way of controlling you....if she makes this threat you need to call. This could be the opportunity to get her seen by medical professionals which she refuses otherwise.

As previously said your daughter needs to get over doing an academic course. It is unavailable to her. Her options are to do an access course or level 3 course (BTEC for example) an apprenticeship or get a job. You cannot continue to accept her to focus on she only wants to do A levels.
Someone in a previous post mentioned having a child that did an access course and went to a Russell group uni. I actually have a similar story. I used to teach secondary. One girl had a teenage pregnancy. Her parents supported her with this and she had the child. She went to college to do an access course, got into a Russell group uni, got a first class degree and then went on to do her masters in a professional area (health related).
You are allowing her to put up barriers. As others have also said you are funding her and her lazy lifestyle. Why would she 'lower' herself to actually having to work or do something else when she knows mum will fund her doing nothing.....and if that fails if she throws a tantrum and now makes a threat of self harm mum will back down completely rather than calling in mental health services for help.

Her behaviour sounds awful to live with and the fact she has a disability doesn’t negate other people’s right to respect. Unfortunately with some people, you’ll never be able to get it right because they’ll find fault and pick away at whatever you do. And whether that’s because of autism, PDA or whatever, the end result is the same. You can’t live your life as the emotional punchbag trying to absorb whatever horrible things she says or does. You are equally important to her. You have the right to be treated reasonably. As do her siblings.

I agree with pp that id be looking at an exit strategy

Would you be able to share the name of this course? 🙏

Op, you have the patience of a saint and your dd is so lucky to have you.

I am hoping for her and you that this is a phase she will simply grow out of.

Would she be interested in doing a day volunteering maybe at an animal shelter?

I think you should both go to therapy together. I know you have been pandering to your dd out of kindness but it's not helpful if you want her to have relationships outside the family. Being autistic doesn't give you a free pass to behave like an entitled brat. That's what I tell my son. If I had gone on bending backwards like you he would have been insufferable as well. He still is at times but no way that he gets a free pass- with my husband we tell him straight out when his behaviour is not acceptable and we explain to him why. You are setting her up for failure because noone except you will bend backwards for her- they will just avoid her ans she will remain lonely in life.

I agree. I think it is an absolute must.

OP if you agree to go to therapy with her, will that perhaps open the option up a bit more?

The term "burnout" is used by different people to mean different things. It's not only used by ASD people. People use the term for example: when they are experiencing job or career stress and feel unable to go to work, when they are exhausted by caring responsibilities and feel unable to carry on, when they have been studying for very difficult exams and opt out of them at the last moment (or don't do as well as they should have), when they are in a dysfunctional relationship but can't get up the energy to leave after years of being ground down, when feeling like giving up while battling something like chronic pain or a mental illness. All sorts of situations. The word doesn't constitute a diagnosis because it doesn't have a definition. No specified symptoms, no agreed parameters or criteria.

Any of the people I have described above may or may not be suffering from mental and/ or physical conditions which do meet criteria for a diagnosis or diagnosis. Determining whether they do and if so what it is/ they are will enable a plan to be formulated.

Of course the word may be used by professionals (although personally I don't think it should be), but not in such a way as to imply a diagnosis. If a psychiatrist has used the word "burnout" to indicate a diagnosis I would be suspicious of their communication skills, and that they are giving vague platitudes rather than coming up with a concrete formulation. Doctors can absolutely be guilty of beating around the bush if they don't feel able, for whatever reason (including adverse/rude/ adversarial patient response or a lack of knowledge or expertise) to be completely straight and detailed with the patient but this is not the right approach in nearly all cases, and it is frankly patronising.

I wish people would be less fearful about suicide threats.

There is a huge difference between someone saying ‘well then I may as well kill my self’ or ‘I’d be better off dead’ and them actually intending to end their own life. Lots of people experience suicidal thoughts at some time in their lives. It needs to be a bit more normalised and be treated as a way to open discussion not to shut it down.

Expressing suicidal thoughts and even taking a small overdose or self harm by cutting are culturally sanctioned expressions of distress and the vast majority of people who do these things do not complete suicide. Attempts in teenagers are hundreds of times more common than a completed suicide especially in girls.

Of course I would be very upset if DD was self harming or threatening suicide because I would take it that it meant she was very distressed but I would not think this made it likely that she would actually end her life and I would not let those words stop me from acting in her best interests.

If saying those words is an effective strategy for her and gets her what she wants she will say it more. The same is true of self harming. In fact it might escalate over time if compassion fatigue sets in and more dramatic acts are needed to get the same result. What is needed is to resolve the situation that makes the person so unhappy and/ or to help them to develop better coping strategies

You can put in boundaries and be firmer whilst still being compassionate and loving. It is not a loving response to just leave her to do nothing and get nowhere given that she is so unhappy right now. You can’t let the very unlikely prospect of suicide stop you from acting on the very real chance that she remains chronically unhappy and dependent on you.

They used the word autistic burnout.

And thanks for the lecture. But I’ll take the advice of SEVERAL nhs ND experts over a random on the internet.

And ND burnout and burnout are not the same thing. Similar but different.

Family therapy as I’ve suggested would be very helpful here but DD is refusing to go. I would consider getting a private family therapist anyway even if she refuses to engage as they can work with the rest of the family system