Urgent advice needed. Probably going to have to leave.

[lifegonewrong2]

Nc for this. Need some advice. Had a horrible incident tonight where my dh was awful to my son (his stepson, been in his life since ds was a toddler - mostly relationship is good but Dh can’t cope with teenage strops and attitude). Tonight ds was rude and Dh just totally blew up, was intimidating towards him and when I intervened he was awful to me too. Ds went to bed in tears. Dh and I had a horrible row. dh called my son a cunt. I can’t get past it. I know my son isn’t perfect but to hear a grown man speak about him like that is vile.

We have a younger dc together. Dh is the primary earner, I work part time but Dh covers all household costs. We will all wake up here tomorrow and I am thinking I should pack some things and just take the kids to a hotel or something. I don’t know what to do.

My relationship with Dh isn’t perfect but we are mostly ok but I can’t cope with him speaking or treating my son like that. I have no idea what to do next but I can’t be around him or have ds around him.

The winding up can be over trivial things, it’s not like he makes personal remarks he just goes on about things a bit. Ds has been told time and time again not to say shut up.

I have tried having a word with dh just now before the dc get up. He recognises he went too far but still is pissed off with Ds and started going on about how he’s lazy (another bug bear of his) and other stuff. Not sure how this will progress. I apologised for my nastiness too. I will try and talk calmly with them both.

No there was a lot more to and fro and more than one shut up. I could see it escalating and tried to intervene but as usual nobody listens to me.

It just sounds so familiar. A normal DS DH relationship. And your DH lost his temper which is perfectly normal too. They just both need to learn how to deal with each other. Your DS is growing up and your DH has never been a father to a 14 year old boy. You just need to talk to them both and tell them how much the row upset you and you don't want it to happen again. And if it does start up again one of them needs to leave the room for a while. And then come back to talk calmly.

Would family therapy be worth considering? Something needs to change for sure and it might be easier for someone neutral to mediate between them.

And the change in what a child needs from a protective mother when he was little, to a father/male who teaches him independence happens around this age. So no wonder its a tricky time!

You need to prioritise full time work. You mentioned house stuff and childcare. One you need to stop doing - it’s not important as a priority and you need to find childcare. You’re placing yourself in a horrible situation and thereby your children by being dependent on this man. That’s your first step of ‘ducks in a row’.

I think it's quite common for men to have a lower tolerance for poor behaviour from teen boys - and I'm including bio dads too and for them to butt heads. I also don't think it's a bad thing for teen boys to be pulled up sharply when they are rude and overstep - they need tp learn boundaries.
Your DH went too far on this occasion but I think you should let the dust settle and see if they can resolve this between them - you shouldn't have to mediate.

You're refusing to say what the conflict with your son was about, so it's impossible to tell whether your husband was unreasonable or not.

I don't think shouting in itself is "unacceptable" behaviour if you're being pushed to your limits repeatedly by a teen. Which is what you seem to describe here.

If you want to leave because of the tension between them, you shouldn't feel forced to stay though, it's your choice.

I'd never been a parent to a 14 year old boy before my first DS either, and my DS wound me up at times too. Yet I managed to never be intimidating to him or to call him a cunt... Why did I manage I wonder? Why is OP able and expected to be calm and rational, but her husband is 'normal' for losing his shit when he's wound up by a child?

Why are so many posters falling over themselves to excuse this behaviour as the somehow inevitable response to being told to shut up? Is the bar so low for men??

I wouldn't accept it or live with it either @lifegonewrong2 . I think counselling before leaving is fair enough, but leaving should be on the cards if nothing changes. You don't need to love like that

From your husband's perspective, it must be not great living with a rude, insolent teenage boy. Telling him to shut up is really provoking, if it's been happening again and again no wonder he snapped.

I'm just coming on to say that sometime teenage boys need putting in their place.

One of the big issues in society these days is teenage boys with absent fathers.

I think a lot depends on the context here. Some people drop the 'c' bomb fairly regularly others never use it. Was yesterday the straw that broke the camel's back?

How many times have you had a chat with your ds and it makes no difference?

Only you really know the dynamic between them. Get over the fact your DH shouted at him because he was annoyed and try and rationalise their relationship. If ithe issues go deeper than yesterday's blow up then yes you have a bigger problem.

I would find it very hard to move past my partner calling my teenager that.

To me it sounds like it's time for you to concentrate on your own actions OP. To be clear, I'm not blaming you here, but you have said "I wish I could disappear' and 'as usual no one listens to me' and talked about how you have no options. How are you in all this?

Time to find and set your own boundaries, get assertive. If this is difficult for you, then explore that. Start to build some options for yourself if possible, a job, some money. I would talk to both your DS and DH separately, be appropriately honest with each of them. I wouldn't tell your DS you are thinking of leaving. I wouldn't go tonight to a hotel, but I would be on last chances and working on my reserves, boundaries and options. Even if it was all rainbows and roses between them this morning, you can't leave yourself so vulnerable.

Teenagers can be arseholes at times. Your husband is a grown man who should be able to regulate his emotions. You constantly having to mediate will have you being continually hypervigilant in your own home.

I’d be torn here. On one hand if it was the first time, I’d sit him down and read him the riot act. Sort yourself out and if you speak to my son like that again you can pack your bags and leave. But on the other hand, first time or not I couldn’t get over him calling him a cunt.

HOWEVER. Don’t leave, get him to leave. Tell him to pack his bags and go. Don’t disrupt you or the kids, but especially the kids. He’s the one in the wrong here, let him be the one to pack his bags and eff off.

So what should DH do? Meekly accept being told to shut up in his own house, that OP admits he pays everything for? Let his 14yr old step son rule the roost for evermore because his mummy will always have his side no matter what?

Yes, calling him a cunt is over the line, but it does sound like DS was escalating behaviour during the ‘to and fro’.

It depends on the temperament of DH and DS. Stuff happens in lives. Just because it didn't happen to you doesnt mean it can't happen to someone else. Ive had two 14 year old boys. Generally lovely and not many arguments. My oldest son pushed the boundaries hugely. There have been one or two big blow ups. If it was regular I would worry more but in all those years I could count a proper row in single figures. So I think its been OK. I wouldn't call my sons the c word and neither would my DH. But if he did I wouldn't immediately decide to blow up the family. But neither would I excuse him. Ive learned that if they walk away from each other and have some time alone then it calms down. Its whether the OP thinks the family is worth saving and only she knows that. Is the DS intimidated? It doesnt sound it.

But other than being told, what are the consequences?

Yes but he's 14. His brain is not fully functioning yet. The adult is the adult. It's not the child's responsibility to diffuse the situation!

Ds has been told time and time again not to say shut up.

You said there was a lot of to and fro and you tried to step in and was ignored.

My assessment of the situation is this @lifegonewrong2:

You feel that your DH ‘saved’ you and your older son - you have no family or support network and him marrying you and ‘taking your son on’ was a way for you to have the normal family life you thought was beyond you.

You are scared to upset the status quo in which your husband is ‘in charge’ and have maximised your husband’s comfort at the expense of yours and your son’s to ensure that your family unit remains intact.

However that has led to a dynamic of your husband getting his way unchallenged in any serious way for a long time. Whilst that’s less of an issue when he was a sweet little boy, it’s a big issue now because you have a teenager who needs guidance and safety and people who love him to him him up properly and this isn’t your DH.

You have told your son not to say shut up - what tools has he been given to get your DH to stop? What is your relationship like with you husband when dealing with conflict? Because what he’s doing shows me he doesn’t know how to get this grown man who is supposed to care about him to stop hurting him. And he has a mum who can’t stop it either.

’Shut up’ is mild. It’s not great and it’s not acceptable but it’s not what it could be.

You’ve given very little detail and have jumped to leaving fairly quickly (from the viewpoint of this thread) which makes me think it’s likely this is the culmination of a lot of poor behaviour from your husband.

I could be way off the mark but I have a son who is 13. He’s autistic, finds life challenging and DH and I don’t find it easy all the time but we have zero issues like this because everyone in our house cares about everyone else and doesn’t want to ‘wind anyone up’ or cause disharmony.

It would be interesting to hear the DH side of this argument. The cunt comment is obviously wrong but the rest is hard to tell. If a child of mine told an adult to shut up, I'd be horrified. What consequences were there? Why is he doing this more than once? Surely the first time the consequences are put in place to make sure it doesn't happen again. The question is - are you too soft and allowing your son's behaviour so your DH feels he has to step in? Is your DH's reaction the end of his tether due to your son and your lack of discipline?

It's a difficult dynamic. This is your child yet you admit that your DH is funding your life despite your child not being his. Is it appropriate to sponge off someone to pay for your child but then not allow him to have a say in his upbringing. I think you need to think not just that you might want to leave but also that DH might want to split. As much as a couple may love each other, if I was funding the life of a child that was not mine, and he was consistently telling me to shut up in my own home with no impactful discipline from his mother, I'd kick them out. Life is too short to put up with that. I'd also worry about the impact on the other child that you share. If you're not parenting the elder child, the younger one will be learning that it's ok to be rude so he will go the same way. I would leave you and fight for custody of the shared child. You need to sit down together and agree a way forward which involves more discipline. You also need to get a full time job. Allowing your husband to fund your son's life is pretty low.

You genuinely just need to look at improving the communication and empathy within your family! Right now, your Ds is learning how to regulate his emotions, how to communicate etc. he needs firm boundaries. If saying shut up is banned in your house, then the second he tells someone to shut up you or DH need to point out to him that he needs to explain 'i am finding this conversation making me feel XYZ right now because of ABC' rather than just saying 'shut up'. Point out to ds that if he isn't enjoying being in communal areas of the home, he can go to his room for space. Equip your ds with what he needs. And advise DH to not just get angry. Get him to also start thinking about his feelings and how to communicate "please don't tell me to shut up. That's rude. What are you finding difficult about what I'm saying?"

I think you NEED some family therapy. You need it soon so you will have to pay for it.
I have sons and lived with a man after my marriage broke down. They were teens. Initially it was fine, but for reasons like you above that relationship ended. There were too many clashes with my eldest son.
if you were not thinking of leaving him yesterday, then I think it’s an overreaction based on one incident. But, if you have been at your wits end for months / years and your DH will not to to resolve this like an adult, then I think you have no choice.

But I e we pile try the family therapy first

Exactly this. I am the step-parent in my house and honestly it sounds like my DH and his teen son. They do things to annoy eachother (sometimes on purpose, sometimes not) thinking it's a laugh and funny, despite repeatedly being told it's just annoying and not funny. It works both ways.
One of them always gets annoyed and BOOM and argument.

It sounds like the OPs DH was annoying SS, SS got annoyed and said shut up and DH has had enough of the disrespect (despite not seeing that he may have been the instigator).

Tbh if my child or my SS told an adult to.shut up... there would have been a massive argument too. Particularly if this man provides really well for him otherwise!

@lifegonewrong2 You might be sick of intervening but tbh from the example here it sounds like you could have intervened with your DH much earlier and changed the subject? Your son is also of an age with raging hormones and needs to learn to control himself and that telling anyone to shut up is disrespectful and won't be tolerated.

I would suggest that you sit down with your DH and ask that he makes a conscious effort not to wind up your son and that you'll take on a more dominant role in ensuring your son isn't so disrespectful. You can tell him clearly that you're marriage depends on this because you're getting increasingly miserable by the antics of the household.

Separately you need to sit your son down and encourage him to come to you if he has an issue and that You'll try to deal with it. But also lay down some rules... if he's disrespectful there are consequences.

They are both in the wrong. But it can be salvaged.

Having a teen IS HARD!

This is a good idea. Some outside mediation may help?

OP, just to give you a bit of hope. I have a DS15 and my husband isn't his biodad. When DS was 14, things were bad between DS and DH, but also between DS and me! It's a very difficult age. Things have really settled in the last year and now the relationship between all of us is much improved, by virtue I think of DS getting a little older. He's started to want to talk to us again. He speaks respectfully. We have some great chats.

Admittedly, DH wasn't 'winding DS up' - your DH does need to understand that he is contributing to the situation.

I'm not sure how much it is just a stepparent issue as I see my BIL in similar clashes with DN who is now 14. I do think it's a little more difficult for stepparents to overlook certain behaviours. I am a step mum myself and DSD had a lot of issues, her biomum was majorly problematic and is no longer in her life, and she's calming down as the years go by. Yes, I have sworn at her in the past. No, DH didn't leave me. It was under extreme provocation including saying utterly vile things, like threatening to thump me in the face while I was pregnant, with zero 'provocation'. She's even hit me on occasion, but again not for years.

What am I saying here? It's complicated. None of us are in your house. You need to bear in mind that a breakup will be incredibly disruptive including to your younger child. If this was a DH just targeting a stepchild unfairly, I'd be with you. Is it? Only you can tell if it's that, or also a DS14 being really obnoxious and being told where to get off. I don't agree with calling him a C, you should definitely have a conversation around the red line of that language. But being perfectly honest, my DS last year was a bit of a C, even though we didn't call him that!

One of them IS a child. It's not appropriate to expect children to act like adults. The adult shouldn't need telling really.

Very important not to discount the huge power imbalance between an adult and a child, especially when not biological parent/child.