To think therapists are mostly charlatans?

[BlueJuniper94]

I've heard in real life of people who have made radical decisions/changes in their lives because of what a "therapist" has said to them. Things that have surprised me as it seems outside the scope of what I thought therapists are there to do (although it's perhaps not entirely clear what that is now).

Today I was listening to woman's hour where a woman being interviewed about her husband walking out on her and her kids tried to keep it from them for a month as per her therapists advice which she said looking back was the wrong thing to do. I am surely this therapist was handsomely paid nonetheless. Aibu?

@CrazyGoatLady your post at 05:47 (you were up early! :) ) - if you do a similar post again, could you consider explaining the terms? It was quite an alphabet soup!

@lilythepinkone

In your case it seems like you didn't need it.

I wish that were the case! I would definitely benefit from changing the way I deal with my emotions, and with my recurrent negative self-thoughts. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to do that on my own, and I'd love a therapist to be able to help guide me through that.

I don't want anyone to make decisions for me, but I expected therapy to give me tools to help me think differently about things, and to teach me how to manage and reframe my thoughts and emotions in a way that isn't destructive. I feel sure that's what they're supposed to do, isn't it? But sadly, none have done so with me, only listening and reflecting.

Maybe instead of 'wanting to get better' it should be 'able to get better'.
Therapy benefits no one if after weeks and weeks there is no change in thought process or behaviours.
We absolutely discussed ways I might think about things differently, and different ways to manage my feelings (e.g. distraction, grounding techniques, sitting with the feelings and seeing that the world didn't implode). This was alongside more physical/practical support (nursing, to ensure I was physically strong enough) and tasks to do to challenge myself.

Therapy finished well before I was better, but I was on the right track and the therapy wouldn't have done more at that stage. I knew what I needed to do. Putting it into practice took years and I use the skills to this day.

Have you tried CBT?
That's about changing how you think.
It sounds as if you have chosen counsellors rather than cognitive behaviour therapy.

You could also try DIY- Mind over Mood is a classic self help book, or CBT for Dummies.

It sounds as though perhaps I've just had bad luck with choosing my therapists, as techniques weren't discussed, beyond a few very basic 'mindful breathing' techniques that I didn't find particularly helpful.

Perhaps you're right, and there are some people who can't get better through therapy and have to rely on medication to manage (but then it would be nice to not see therapy touted as the answer for everyone).

Thank you for the resources! I've seen a couple of clinical psychologists many years ago, and supposedly well-trained psychotherapists since then, but I don't know that any of them actually engaged in CBT.

Any therapist should be able to clearly explain the way they work and how it helps. In some therapies change comes in the context of the relationship, some are more skills based. No therapy should simply be listening and reflecting - including person centred therapy which is often perceived as just listening. In listening, and reflecting there should also be exploration, observation of what you say and how you say it, the therapist should be mirroring back to you alternative perspectives or their experience of you, challenging your perspectives (and modelling how you can do that for yourself). If your therapist isn’t actively engaged in your therapy they aren’t doing their job, regardless of modality.

I think most therapists are crap, very few are charlatans. They think they’re doing good but they often cause more harm than good

All of this emphasis on clinical psychologists is misplaced. I’ve seen some dreadful clinical psychologists- in my experience they are most likely to hide behind a veneer of professionalism and never actually address the true issues

Come to say the same!! Probably someone who I a life coach done a groupon course rather than a clinically certified doctor

But therapists are never ‘clinically certified doctors’. You’re thinking of psychiatrists, who are medical doctors with a specialism in diagnosing and treating mental illnesses.

Therapist's personal experience does not negate their professional training. If I break my leg tomorrow, it doesn't magically make me incapable of advising someone how to rehabilitate their mobility and function after orthopedic trauma or surgery.

And psychological therapy is not usually centered on "poor you". It's an active process where a person undergoing therapy uses therapist's time in a way that they feel is helpful. It's not remotely a passive process where you show up for sessions expecting to be "therapised". You come with an agenda, with reflections, with specific questions and goals. Only then it can work.

You're welcome!

CBT can be a game changer if you work on it.

Yeah, this is what I have observed with my dad and sister in therapy. There seems to be very little there. (And yes, these were highly trained people with professional affiliations in all the right organisations.) I always have felt like my sister gets worse in therapy.

I know it's not for everyone but I feel like I get a lot more out of going to church regularly. Basically a guided time to think about positives in my life, where I have gone wrong personally, a commitment to do better, time to think about others who suffer, to think about what I can control and what I can't (and should leave behind) and time for thankfulness for what I have. All with music, contemplation, and some interaction with fellow human beings many of whom are much worse off than me, and some practical methods for coping and changing behaviour thrown in. Plus it's free, and my welcome doesn't depend on my being a paying client.

You say that, but my dad used to help his neighbour with his PhD work (psychology-related) and he was very homophobic and not a very nice person. He said some very stupid things.

That said, although it takes four or so years to train as a counsellor, I think a lot of them are not suitable for the job.

Actually I think the Christian (or almost all other religions) emphasis on community and making amends for destructive behaviour is positive. Therapy, with its emphasis more on the individual, can overlook the individual's effect on others.

True

This is surely well outside your competence? If someone is actively suicidal you ought to be signposting them to the appropriate service

I know several Therapists and their home lives are generally as fucked up as they come.

Sorry, yes I was up early with the puppy! Will try and do a potted summary of the main ones. You forget when immersed in it all.

CBT = cognitive behavioural therapy based around working towards behavioural and attitudinal change (type of therapy common in the NHS)

EMDR = eye movement desensitisation and reprocessing. Therapy offered to help with PTSD and complex trauma among other things.

Systemic therapy is a type of family therapy that might be offered to couples, family groups or even workplace teams. Can be done individually as well. Very crude explanation of it is the basic premise that we can only understand self in relation to others/the systems we operate within. A family could be a system, society is a system, a church/religion, a workplace or school, a friend group, etc.

Core training = the training someone does to qualify them to practise independently as a counsellor, psychotherapist, psychologist, etc.

Post qualifying specialism = a different therapy approach or specialism (may also be called modality) that you can only do after completing your core training.

CYP = children and young people

CAMHS - the NHS Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service. Though "lack of service" may better describe it these days!

Many therapists will give you a short free phone call to help you see how they work. It should become obvious fairly soon whether they are the just listening type (which would drive me crazy) or the gentle challenging type who draw your attention to distortions in how you see the world or who help to reframe unhelpful thought processes.

For example you might think you’re a selfish person because you’ve been made to feel selfish by your mother every time you want your needs to be met (because it suits her for you to fit in with her wants/needs). It wouldn’t help you for a therapist to just listen to a story where you ‘prove’ how selfish you are but if your therapist points out that it is not selfish to at least some of the time get your needs met than you change your unhelpful self-image over time.

It could be among the questions you ask prospective therapists. Are you very person-centred/non-interventionist or do you challenge/reframe things? If the latter can you give an example? How much do you think psycho-education is important and use it with your clients? Can you give an example? How would you manage the situation if I said I was unhappy with something you said or with how therapy was working? What kind of unhealthy thought patterns do you come across and how would you work with them? If the therapist isn’t able to answer these questions or becomes defensive, find another therapist!

Also the best therapists aren’t always the most expensive or highly qualified. Mine is £60 for a full hour in London and is the most insightful I have come across. A good therapist will not keep you in therapy beyond your need. You can ask for regular reviews and if you can start going fortnightly or monthly (check this out at the beginning as some therapists are strictly weekly and some are more flexible over time).

Most therapists look at the individual in relation to the world and their relationships. It’s obvious people don’t live in a vacuum. I am suspicious of religious teachings as they are often manipulated by the prejudices of the teacher. For example I went to a Catholic school and lots of the students carry a lot of existential guilt and put others first because that is how they were taught. It has caused a lot of problems to them because they have very poor boundaries and get taken advantage of.

Many churches teach that women are self-sacrificing support animals and men should lead them. This is not a healthy dynamic in my opinion.

@CrazyGoatLady thank you!

@bananafake I could not agree more that the ~way~ religions carry out the concept of responsibility towards each other as well as to ourselves is terrible. Funny how almost all religions (maybe all?) end up with men on top and the most superior life form snorts and how many millions of women have been sacrificed to that.

Many religions do formalise the concept that we have a responsibility towards each other though in a way that therapy, which usually centres one person, does not.

It sounds like systemic therapy is the exception to that.

I had long term (2+ years) therapy on the NHS a long time ago, and it was the best but hardest thing I ever did. It was psychodynamic psychotherapy, and was hard work! I think you do have to engage with the process and put the work in. It sounds cheesy but you have to be up for wanting to change whatever it is that’s bothering you, and courageous enough to admit you might have been an arse at some points….

i found therapy helped me understand myself and how I tick and why I react(ed) to things the way I did, which was invaluable. It clearly worked as I’ve not had a big depressive episode since.
I don’t doubt there are some utterly dodgy therapists out there who are unregulated and not accountable, and some probably go into that line of work for dubious reasons, but there are also some good ones out there.

No not angry. I have no skin in the game. I just find empty, sweeping statements banal and pointless. There's no way she is in a position to say "most therapists" are anything, as she's not in a position to have evidence on the characteristics of "most therapists".