To think therapists are mostly charlatans?

[BlueJuniper94]

I've heard in real life of people who have made radical decisions/changes in their lives because of what a "therapist" has said to them. Things that have surprised me as it seems outside the scope of what I thought therapists are there to do (although it's perhaps not entirely clear what that is now).

Today I was listening to woman's hour where a woman being interviewed about her husband walking out on her and her kids tried to keep it from them for a month as per her therapists advice which she said looking back was the wrong thing to do. I am surely this therapist was handsomely paid nonetheless. Aibu?

Totally agree with this. Some people I know irl have made a total mess of their own lives and are completely dysfunctional. It beggars belief that they should be giving advice to anyone.

I think it's a very unregulated ' profession' with lots of awful people practising... I knew a woman who became a therapist and she told everyone else how to live while being an absolute disaster area herself. She had been married numerous times, had a boyfriend who was an utter fruitcake, had seriously fucked up relationships with her kids, and never missed an opportunity to tell other people what was 'wrong ' with them. After knowing her a while, I came to the conclusion she liked to get inside other people's heads to see what made them tick just so that she could weaponise it to her advantage. She was deeply insecure, competitive and screwed up and it's chillong to think she is still practising as a therapist....she literally advises people on their relationships.

I've seen some excellent psycho therapists but if I have to change for whatever reason (moving, retirement) I make very sure to check their training and experience. Life's thrown some major challenges and I really don't want to have to pass the tissues to the therapist, as happened on one first session.

I do think there can be a danger of becoming self-obsessed, and perhaps it's a trap I've fallen into to some degree, but equally a well trained and challenging psychotherapist has taught me an enormous amount about why I was acting in ways that were clumsy and self destructive, and I just didn't understand why. Those patterns cannot be undone, but strong (and often uncomfortable) psychotherapy taught me understanding and that helped me choose better ways to behave that led to a much better life. Helped me form new patterns, you could say. Better for me, better for my children.

Tea and sympathy therapy would have been worse than useless though, it would have been damaging. 'Poor you' therapy just makes it all more self indulgent.

If someone tells you they are actively suicidal, the appropriate response is to direct them to immediate crisis support where they are located - for example 999 in the UK or 112 elsewhere in Europe - or to encourage them to reach someone physically present who can help. "Messaging back and forth" so that you can "chat properly tomorrow" is not the appropriate course.

The idea that UK police “won’t answer a Portuguese number” isn’t correct. UK emergency services can be reached from a non-UK phone number using the international access number. A properly trained and licensed medical professional would know this.

I am willing to believe that some of your clients benefit from some of your services but I think your lack of knowledge and expertise is apparent, and underscores the major issue with even well-intentioned people dabbling in areas that require trained, licensed professionals.

I recall from another thread that you were trained by Tim Box. Neither he, nor (as best I can tell) any major UK college of hypnotherapy in the UK, claims that remedial hypnotherapy is an appropriate form of treatment for suicidal ideation or any other crisis situation.

If you are a member of a Professional Standards Authority, you are likely seriously offside of their code of conduct/ethics.

Well said

@DeepBlueDeer quite agree. Eyeswideopen pops up a lot on MH threads with iffy advice and has just illustrated very well the problems this thread is referencing; being trained by guru or on a course that makes zero reference to risk or safeguarding and does not teach the individual to be aware of their skills and knowledge limits.

In my experience of my friends, people who are blindsided by someone’s decisions from therapy are sometimes either the person being talked about in therapy or they don’t truly know that person and so the decisions are unexpected. That being said, I’ve had a couple of bad therapists who have tried to tell me what to do or have just been quite unprofessional. I think there’s definitely the potential for vulnerable people to get worse or unhealthy actions/behaviours to be validated

Yes sorry. A suicidal person needs expert emergency medical and psychiatric care not a chat with a ‘remedial hypnotist’.

YABVVVU. I have an incredible therapist, for whom I am so grateful, who has helped me massively with ptsd.
a truly trained therapist won’t advise someone to take action (unless their life is in danger/ therapists are mandatory reporters.)

"Counsellor" and "therapist" are not protected titles. They are often used interchangeably. A "therapist" could mean a lot of different types of training, in NHS world (and outside of it). Their core training could be counselling/psychotherapy or CBT, or they might be a nurse or OT with CBT, DBT or EMDR training. They call PWPs "therapists" in the NHS, and those are usually wee psychology grads with a 1 year postgrad certificate course in doing shit manualised CBT, not therapists at all really.

A "therapist" could also denote a clinical, counselling, educational or health psychologist with additional therapeutic modality training like CBT, EMDR, or psychodynamic therapy. Or if we're talking CAMHS, quite a few have systemic/family training, which people can go into from backgrounds like psychology, counselling/psychotherapy, social work and teaching. CAMHS may also have art psychotherapists and play therapists as well as CYP counsellors/CBT therapists.

Counsellors/psychotherapists could have anything from a Level 4 diploma up to a Masters or doctorate. Systemic/family therapy training is generally 3-4 years and you come out with a PGDip or Masters. Art psychotherapy varies, as does play therapy.

CBT therapists would usually do a postgrad diploma while employed in the NHS for their practicum. But not always - nurses, OTs and psychologists who convert might do fast track training.

Psychologists have a doctorate. But that doesn't always mean they are qualified to practise any and all psychological therapies, it depends what their core training included. I trained in educational psychology originally, and converted from working for the LEA to training to do systemic therapy in CAMHS. At the time it was NHS funded. Not many funded places available these days though.

Some types of therapy require additional post-qualification training, for example EMDR, you have to have a certain amount of experience and be accredited by BACP, BABCP, UKCP etc if your core training is CBT or counselling/psychotherapy and you want to train in EMDR.

I don't know that most of them are 'charlatans', but I do think a lot of expensive talk therapies could be replaced by talking to a level-headed friend.

From my varied experience with qualified psychologists and psychotherapists, they mostly tend to listen with very little guidance - I've seen someone who supposedly did CBT but they didn't actually seem to enact any of it. Perhaps I just haven't found a good practitioner, but in that case the good ones seem to be as rare as hen's teeth.

I think it's true that some forms of therapy just don't work for some people though - for eg. autistic people especially can struggle with techniques that work for others.

My therapist is brilliant. I am very lucky to work with her. I think making sweeping statements about a whole profession is never wise.

Frankly, I agree with PP.

When I've seen qualified clinical psychologists and therapists, I've found myself blathering on, reliving traumatic events from the past, and talking about the difficulties I have in the present because of that trauma, over and over, every week.
And I have, without exception been met with praise for my self-awareness (well thank you, but it's about as much use as tits on a bull), an eager, listening expression, and hackneyed questions about how x makes me feel, or why might I think that way about y, and nothing actually helpful.

Now, one can say, 'oh, that's just because you weren't in the right frame of mind', but when you're paying, going, and motivated to get onto top of your mental health issues...what more can you do? What frame of mind do you need? (Genuine question)

Surely as a therapist and your client is ACTIVELY suicidal and not just ideation, you’d breach confidentiality and get them to A&E or crisis team support??
Actually, this is incorrect. Only vulnerable adults (were talking legal definition of vulnerable) and children can justify a breach of confidentiality. Being suicidal alone isn't enough.

There is a lot of hypocrisy on this threat when you consider the number of people who seemed to make life changing decisions on the basis of what total strangers write in response to a short post on MN. Posters who for the majority of cases have no experience of counselling, therapy or legal services and in most instances are everything but impartial. I find this most disconcerting!

There seems to be a lot of misconception that therapists should ‘give advice’. This is incorrect - trained therapists should explore difficulties, help people generate an understanding of what they are, how they have developed and what is maintaining them and then support THEM to make changes. Providing some ideas/techniques to support yes for example compassion-focused work but therapists shouldn’t be giving advice like friends!

I mean, it's probably not the definition of safe and appropriate practice either.

I think when people say 'advice' a lot of the time they mean guidance on how to go about dealing with an issue or situation - not 'what should I do?' but 'how do I figure out what to do?'

So, giving a person useful techniques or skills to enact. This is where I've had issues - I already understand my difficulties, who I am, and how my issues developed, so if I'm looking to make changes, then a therapist needs to teach me how to make those changes. But that seems to be where they come up empty, in my experience at least.

The fact that you have taken the OP's post personally enough to respond with details about a personal experience, that paints you as a life saving hero, to refute her assertion tells me you are not boundaried or objective and are easily emotionally triggered.

Doesn't mean you are a charlatan but perhaps not as emotionally well balanced as you think you are.

I presume they are there to facilitate the person working things through themselves

That poster is routinely snippy and rude, definitely not someone emotionally balanced!

The only therapist i’ve for privately was the best i’ve ever had and really helped to reflect on my way of thinking and change it for the better.

My son was struggling badly with OCD. This woman who sells herself as a specialised OCD therapist did a 1.5 hour session as she was so busy and thats what she could fit in and then announced at the end of the session that my son is now in remission.
5 years later and hes just recieved the therapy he needed via The Maudsley Hospital.

I think this is very well put and I agree.

The ‘well you weren’t ready’ is so very irritating and also the ultimate get out clause: it isn’t that therapy is often ineffective, it’s the fault of the (paying!) client.

I tried multiple therapists before finally paying to see a psychiatrist who diagnosed me with cPTSD and recommended a clinical psychologist. She described him as the best working in the UK at the moment and it has been life changing. I realise now how rubbish all the other ones were.

Shouldn't you be calling 111 or an ambulance if they're a actively suicidal. Surely that would be a more appropriate response.