To think therapists are mostly charlatans?

[BlueJuniper94]

I've heard in real life of people who have made radical decisions/changes in their lives because of what a "therapist" has said to them. Things that have surprised me as it seems outside the scope of what I thought therapists are there to do (although it's perhaps not entirely clear what that is now).

Today I was listening to woman's hour where a woman being interviewed about her husband walking out on her and her kids tried to keep it from them for a month as per her therapists advice which she said looking back was the wrong thing to do. I am surely this therapist was handsomely paid nonetheless. Aibu?

It kind of is self-indulgent though. At least, that’s the conclusion I reached after paying through the nose for years and dabbling in various types of therapy, most recently psychodynamic. All involved me taking time out of my busy life (disabled child, terminally ill, challenging parent, largely unsupportive DH and highly stressful FT job) to talk about how my dad was a bit of a tosser and why I became a people pleasing overachiever as a result. I’d get a head tilt and some suggestions for why that might have appeared to be a good strategy to child-me, but nothing I hadn’t already considered and certainly nothing that would help me lose any “unhelpful thought processes”. Why and how could a simple conversation do that?

The one and only thing that did help my MH (apart from AD’s) was volunteering - paradoxically, being more selfless and devoting the time I would have spent contemplating my navel to the community gave me gratitude for my situation, rather than a desire to analyze the fuck out of it. Aware that sounds sanctimonious.

Pretty much everything we can glean from therapy can be distilled into a few sentences: it baffles me that people have made a career out of it. It’s also a little tyrannical to suggest that it’s somehow my thought patterns that are faulty. “It works, but if it doesn’t work, it’s your fault” which sounds pretty scammy to me!

On the one hand, you have therapists like the one on here posting about chit chatting at night with random suicidal people who message, and on the other you have the ridiculous defensive practice and over egging of risk assessment that often occurs in the NHS. Sorry you went through that, they shouldn't be digging for extreme scenarios thar might hypothetically make you feel suicidal if fundamentally you are not at any risk to yourself! It's reasonable to ask if there are any triggers that might worsen your mental health, but not to make you think of really horrid things that could happen!

Well said.
I wouldn’t countenance using anyone without this level of solid academic achievement. The term “therapist” is basically meaningless and totally open to abuse.

This

I was in your situation at one point, I was like I can tell myself all these things-. It was pointed out by the Pysch that its one thing telling yourself these things but it is another acutally believing that its true.

This is portrayed really well in the scene in Good Will Hunting at the end when the pysch says "Its not your fault" and Will replies "yeah I know" and he keeps going until it starts to really affect him.

For me this happened because I am trying to build a better relationship with a parent. I really want this parent to listen to me, not just behave like I am a supporting character in their life. The pysch had to get my attention and say "it is not going to change" about 3 times with full eye contact. When the realisation actually came.. it was like I was stabbed in the chest with a chainsaw. I couldn't get out of bed the next day.

I am OK about it now a few months later.

faulty. “It works, but if it doesn’t work, it’s your fault” which sounds pretty scammy to me!

I hate that!

Thats it! There was more than enough stuff to work with rather than asking an anxious person 'tell me the worst thing you can imagine happening'. I'm sure many anxious people would have no trouble fixating on that! One nice outcome was that, after pulling myself together, I realised I was probably ok mentally if I'd had to go to the absolute worst thing a parent can imagine to answer that question.

Apologies I only read the first paragraph of your message.

That sounds really rough- glad you got through it.

I wonder if there is up-to-date research on the effecitveness of NHS pyschotherapy to give people an idea of what can be acheived with it.

I was a Physiotherapist and we would only get 6 treatment sessions (8 if we thought for it). This is find sub-acute conditions but for people with chronic pain issues (pain for more than 3 months) we could only set them up with a programme which wouldn't even scratch the surface of their issue.

I guess it depends on the context but that is how all therapy works including Physio, OT etc.

Think of the treatment sessions like roadsigns for where you want to go, but you still have to do the driving to go down that road.

I wonder if there is up-to-date research on the effecitveness of NHS pyschotherapy to give people an idea of what can be acheived with it.

I mean yes, there's plenty. But I'll never go to work if I get started about NHS research bias and how they very carefully weed out patients in IAPT to make sure they get the results they need!

I can imagine. Do you think their are commonalities in people that can't be helped with talking therapies?

for example my friend is a pysch and I asked her if Narcissists can be helped with talking therapies. I was thinking they have litle empathy so would be incredibly lonely etc.. She said its rarely successful and you just give them more tools for manipulations.

I agree with this comment.

I work at a mental health service offering long term low cost psychotherapy. It is run by amazing people, the clinical lead enforces boundaries and the supervision is excellent. I have learnt so much here.

That being said there are many people on my course (I am a newly qualified psychotherapist) who have had experienced with placements that were not containing and seem to have let them down in terms of education and experience.

We have all done four years of intensive training, clinical work, therapy and supervision at great personal financial and emotional cost. There are, however, some people qualifying who still seem (IMO) unsuitable for the role for various reasons.

Ensuring your therapists is registered with an accrediting body which stipulates lengthy and thorough training (BACP, BPC, UKCP etc) is a must. They will have had to examine their own motivation and bias, which I believe is key to avoid pushing their ideas on to the client. After that you must use your own discernment as there will be a range of competencies.

No psychotherapist (I can’t speak for other modalities) should be telling you what to do in your life.

Predictably Op hasnt returned. I only opened this thread to confirm that.

My theory is that many people are attracted to being a therapist because of their own problems. So I wouldn’t have much faith in what they had to say. Too much focus on ‘poor you’ and ‘that must be so difficult’ and encouragement of feeling victimised. I tried marriage counselling when my fire marriage broke down and found earnest middle aged women putting their heads on one side but nothing useful. Getting on with it and following my own instincts were better things to do.

@dontletmedownbruceThis is partly the problem, people have specific types of therapy that ‘don’t work’ and then decide that that type is rubbish. Different things for different people. Different therapists for different people.

'Therapists' are not supposed to advise.

I have friends who are counsellors- ie psychotherapists and registered with BACP.

If a therapist does tell a client what to do, that is contrary to best practice.

My response was to PP who said she regarded therapy as 'wanging on' about herself week after week and not finding it helpful.
During my period of intense therapy I didn't dip into any sort of trauma until a few weeks in, when the therapeutic relationship had been established, trust had been built and I felt safe (and I presume she felt that our sessions would be helpful). It was alongside support from other HCP in the team who monitored progress (or lack of) periodically.
I think you need to be in a frame of mind that wants to get better. If you're sitting there thinking your problems are too big and/or that you can't be helped, and that hasn't changed after a few weeks then it's probably not the right therapy for you, or the right therapist.
I've said earlier that I have only limited personal experience, and that's what I'm basing my opinion on. I didn't pay - it was NHS.

Actually if there are any concerns that someone's life is in threat then professionals have a duty of care to proportionately share information. What is your definition of a vulnerable adult? Is it under section 42 of the Care Act? Data protection does not prevent us from sharing information, it guides us to. Imagine going to coroners court to explain why you did not share necessary information in order to safeguard someone's life as a professional, trust me I have been there, albeit not this situation, and it isnt pleasant.

You're wrong there.
Part of being a counsellor is tackling your own demons and you have to undergo counselling yourself. It's a long process often taking 4 to 5 years at degree level and then hundreds of hours of practice before they can take paying clients.
I'm not saying they are all good- there is a variation as there is with anything.

As your own experience showed, they do not tell anyone what to do.
They ask you the 'right' questions to enable you to find your own answers.

I think you're mistaken to make a judgement on one single experience.
Counsellors deal with all kinds of issues- sexual abuse, emotional abuse, grief, loss of confidence, anxiety and much more.

The counsellors I know say they provide a safe space to talk so the client can find their own answers with prompts.

@OtterlyAstounding But you're coming at this from the stance of being an educated, intelligent and self-aware person.
Not everyone is all of those.

Counselling didn't get you anywhere, mainly as you were already self aware.
But not everyone is.

In your case it seems like you didn't need it.
If you expected them to make decisions for you, that's not what they do.
Why?

Because they don't want you to turn round in a year's time and say it was their fault you left your husband, they told you to, and it's not worked out as you hoped. (or any other example you want to think of.)

@BringBackCatsEyes That has been very much my experience too, with multiple professionals throughout my life. Although to be fair, I wasn't very well-informed on all the different types of therapy (ACT, CBT, Schema, DBT) at the time I tried.

I think you need to be in a frame of mind that wants to get better.

Again, there seems to be an assumption that a lack of results = not wanting to get better.
I was definitely in a frame of mind where I wanted to enact change, but I found there was just a lot of me talking about my past (round and round in circles) and my current issues, with nothing in regards to helping to reframe my thoughts, manage my feelings, or move past trauma/develop better mental habits.

I'm glad it worked for you, though!!

Actually you can qualify as a counsellor/psychotherapist in as little as two years part time study, depending on your background. BACP only requires 100 supervised practice hours to register with them. Some folk are out there practicing with minimal qualifications while registered with BACP/NCPS. And many courses now don’t require students to undergo therapy, or ask for 12 hours which is a nonsense.

Is that right? I thought even a diploma in counselling took much longer.
I know of someone who had to do 400 hours before being registered, on top of a degree in psychotherapy.

You can do Diploma courses part-time in two years, I know plenty of people who did. Some of these courses are BACP accredited.

You need 400/450 hours (can’t remember off the top of my head) to be accredited with BACP but you don’t need accreditation to practice or set up private practice. If I look at training providers in my area they offer a post graduate level diploma over 1 year full time or 2 years part time, some with the option of a further year to gain a Masters. Many don’t require a degree to gain access, post graduate refers to the academic level of the course, not the requirement to have a degree. Universities tend to want a bachelor’s degree but private providers (of which there are many) often dont.

It’s really worrying in that while some providers are really great, some aren’t. I’ve known of organisations inviting former students to become tutors within a year or two of qualifying - where they can’t possibly have the experience needed to bring people through their qualification.

It’s so important to really check the qualifications and experience of anyone you plan to see as a therapist. There’s no accepted standard of training both in terms of level or content, so very much a case of buyer beware. Best way is through personal recommendation.