How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

[Karma1387]

Me and my partner are in a situation where we are looking to relocate in order to move to a Grammar school area. This is going to involve us both having to find new jobs and coordinate a house move at the same time.

Some of my family disagree with our decision to move for the sake of grammar school and don't see how they can be better than a normal comprehensive school.

I am hoping some people on here will have some knowledge on how grammar schools achieve so much better than comprehensives?

Also anyone with experience with grammar schools they could share? From what I have read the class sizes aren't much different to comprehensives and they get the same funding. Is it literally just a case of because they do the 11+ they tend to only take on the more academically inclined kids. Does this translate to less bad behaviour etc compared to comprehensive schools?

The move is going to be stressful with us both trying to find new jobs plus moving further away from both our families I want it to be worth it! Our local comprehensive is awful for results and we want to give the kids the best opportunities.

Personally I would rather homeschool and fully keep them out of the school system but my partner is very against this and is determined we need to move to a grammar school area so any advise to aid our discussion would be amazing!

Are we being unreasonable to relocate for the possibility of grammar school?

There are issues , just different ones . My eldest has worked at both . On one end she had behaviour in terms of children with disengaged parents or who needed more help or were less academic. On the other end she had children who would get upset at a lower score, higher anxiety , pressure from parents , fear of failing . (TRIGGER WARNING) one of the pulls in the class over committed suicide mid exams.
some children thrive better in a normal comprehensive style school , some do better at grammar school. It’s about finish g the right envíronment for your child . Generally grades are better at grammar because they cream from the top with the 11 plus. Also a lot of the parents are higher educated with better jobs and have invested time and or money in their children’s education. There’s pros and cons to all .

My daughter prefers to teach comprehensive.

My Sister would retire if she left her Grammar School ! The thought of teaching at a non 'Grammar' school after 26 years would fill her with dread. Even dealing with the ongoing shit on her family farm is not as bad as teaching at a Comp !

Well trying to home school during covid my very bright, academic, compliant (at school) child wouldn't do a thing for me - he was in tears by tea time of the first day and I didn't even try to home school him after that. I just let him do his thing. Obviously back in school when they opened back up and on track for great GCSEs. Both of us would have ended up with mental health problems if he had to home school permanently for sure.

Glad to hear I wasn't the only one with this experience.
He likes school, likes learning, hopefully likes me. Combining the these things together was not the lovely scene in my head but the disaster zone you describe. He made progress but it wasn't pleasant for any of us.

How much are you spending on leasing a car?

Could buying a cheap car say 6-8k (using a loan if needed) free up £££ towards a bigger mortgage?

My cheap little car (Kia Picanto) costs about £50 each month to keep on the road taking account of insurance, maintenance, repairs, tyres. I've had it 17 years so the purchase price is long since written off. - but let's say you get a car that costs £100 a month for everything after the car is paid for. Perhaps you can save £200 each month or more? That's £2400 in one year - 24k in ten years. That would get you a chunk of extra house. If you need to buy another cheap car in that 10 years you have still saved the remainder of the 24k.

If your car lease is £500 or £700 each month the numbers become much more substantial. E.g. buying an 8k car and using it for 10 years with a cost of £100 each month would cost £20,000 over the ten years.
Paying a lease of £700 a month for ten years would cost 84k
So buying and running a cheap car could save potentially 64k over 10 years.

Bangernomics.

Apparently mixed sex schools are good for boys but bad for girls?

Isn't an all girls school safer for girls as no need to do with SH from boys (which I obviously hope mixed schools deal with)

Not sure we would find a car of our size for 6-8k and as we drive an electric car which only costs us £30 a month to charge we would most likely be about equal per month or worse off after factoring fuel, insurance, tax, cost of car plus maintenance and repairs but something for us to consider although it does keep Partner out of going into the higher tax band as well.

Not sure it would benefit a huge amount from a mortgage point of view. We would most likely only be £100 a month better off if we managed to buy a cheap car. Whereas we are looking at a 150-200k more for a mortgage to move to an area with good comprehensives.

Diesel for the milage DP does would be around £250-300 alone, £70-100 for insurance for us both so already at 350-400 per month before we even think about cost of the car, tax, maintenance, repairs I imagine we would be spending more than the £550 after the tax saving eaxh month if we came off the lease.

I appreciate home schooling isn't for all parents or children. It could possibly be something we try and if we both hate it try school.

Alternatively we could try school and if he hates it we could pull him out as long as I didn't go back to a career.

Lots to think about and consider!

Both my kids are at a grammar school. It’s our nearest School, but many travel more than 20 miles to get to school so very competitive as they outperform the nearest private schools. Generally we have been happy with our choice. The schools are very strict but they do get great results and both kids say there is very little disruptive behaviour. It really depends what the alternative comprehensives are like.

Pulling a child out of school because he hates it is a risky route to go down, especially at primary level, and except in extreme cases of bullying, for example. Where do you set the bar? Based on what you have said about your own experience of school and your tendancy to overthink, I suspect the bar would be quite low. It's not responsible to teach children that if they don't like something, they don't have to do it. Where does that leave homework, swimming lessons, sitting at a table with elderly relatives, walking the dog, tidying their room?

You have also said your DP is anti-home schooling so it's worrying that you would provoke conflict by going down this route, your children stuck in the crossfire. Soon, you will have two children and are already considering making decisions that will in all probability create rods for your own and your partner's back.

Bear in mind that you may not get a place in your preferred school (primary or secondary) if you apply outside of a normal entry point. If you "try" home schooling and decide you don't like it, your school options will be very much reduced (particularly at infants level where there is a cap on class sizes).

I think the line is if my child is clearly distressed at going to school. If it is affecting their mental health or if quite frankly they just hate it. I won't make my kids go to something that makea them miserable.

I expect my kids to work hard and apply themselves but that doesn't mean they should be forced to be somewhere if it genuinly makes them miserable. I wouldn't stay in a job or situation that made me depressed so why should I expect my children to.

I made it clear to my partner before we had our first if he insists we go down the public school route and my kids are clearly suffering I will not force them to go.

I find it interesting that I am wrong for being open and willing to homeschool my children because my partner is anti-homeschooling. But its totally okay for me to give up on what I feel is right for my kids and put them into a system I personally dont like and my kids may not like.

There could equally be conflict from my partner insisting my kids go to school but thats apparently okay?

"11+ they tend to only take on the more academically inclined kids".

Cherry picking leads to better results.

I know this but unless we can move to a more expensive area in the next year and a half which is highly unlikely we would have to apply out of catchment anyway.

I don't personally think I would regret homeschooling my kids through primary but I understand you never know until you do something so there is always the risk of then trying to get them into a school we liked.

However as we likely have this issue anyway with us applying out of catchment it isn't so much of a worry.

And there is a very big difference between teaching a child basic manners of sitting through dinner, learning, and being a generally well rounded individual and teaching them that they have to stay in situations that make them genuinly miserable. I wouldn't make my child attend swimming lessons if they really really hated it. Same as I wouldn't make them hug or spend time with someone they don't want to.

There is a balance but I don't agree with making children do things that aren't essential or make them miserable.

I personally feel that you can easily homeschool primary. I could easily teach DS all the maths and science he needed.

Public school route? Meaning state school?

Have you and your husband been into any primary schools since being at them yourself? I think you may be pleasantly surprised. You could start by doing the rounds of the school fetes this summer, to get a general flavour.

I mean secondary sounds like the main issue and that's 8 years' off at least!

Also, it is cool to be bright at grammar schools. @Tonissister It's been cool to be bright in the sets my DC have been in at their inner city comp too.... If kids are bright they'll be fine at a comp, if they struggle they'll not get into a grammar school either so I'd say finding an area with a good comp is the best idea in case OP's children turn out not to be highly academic.

Yes I mean state school.

I have been into primary schools since I left school but no we are trying to get a rough idea of where we want to be before we start looking. We know we don't want to send him to any of our catchment ones so we are working out rough areas we might like and then looking at the review data and then making a list.

I am going to be very blunt and say that I am perplexed that with a two-year old and a baby on the way you are making so complicated and anxiety-laden something that millions of families organise every year without a murmur. For all the issues we face as a country, we are lucky to live in one in which education is state-funded from the age of four to 18/19 for anyone who wants it.

The easy option is the majority option. Visit schools in your area. Apply for the ones you like, by the local authority deadline; prepare your child by talking about school in a positive way; watch with pleasure as your child plays, learns and makes friends; abd feel tearful that they are becoming independent from you and remind yourself that creating a fully functioning human bring is the purpose of the job of parent.

To achieve the level of choice and control you seem to want, there is also the option of an independent school. But that costs so isn't available to everyone. And even with the financial outlay, there is no guarantee that you or your children will like what you find there.

I think we just don't know how you could possibly know this with a two year old.

Are your local primary schools really that bad?

You do seem to have a few issues around school. You are looking to grammar as the answer but as others have said, it's the opposite of your ethos.

It's quite normal to have a certain amount of anxiety about letting go when it comes to sending them to school. While I don't deny school choices matter, your fixation at this stage feels more like it comes from issues around control and your desire not to leave them.

I'm not saying that to have a dig. Just that it's very hard to look at your two year old and not feel overwhelmingly protective.

Why are you applying for primary out of area? That surely isn't going to result in you getting your first choice.

And don't underestimate what a faff a long school run is with a toddler in tow.

People are saying "turn out not to be academic" does that mean that it's just what they are born like? And not due to teaching and revision etc?

We would be applying out of catchment because the one thing we agree on is we don't want them to go to the ones in our catchment as the results are poor as are a lot of comments from the parents. We also know we don't want to stay where we live long term so finding a school somewhere closer to where we want to live eventually makes sense so we don't have to move DS schools.

Nothing about my issues with Primary schools is about letting go. He goes to nursery 3 days a week and absolutely loves it. My issues with primary schools is more to do with a mixture of not liking the ones in our catchment and also not liking 4 year olds being at school full time as well at the expectations on young children and the disruption in lots of schools.