How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

[Karma1387]

Me and my partner are in a situation where we are looking to relocate in order to move to a Grammar school area. This is going to involve us both having to find new jobs and coordinate a house move at the same time.

Some of my family disagree with our decision to move for the sake of grammar school and don't see how they can be better than a normal comprehensive school.

I am hoping some people on here will have some knowledge on how grammar schools achieve so much better than comprehensives?

Also anyone with experience with grammar schools they could share? From what I have read the class sizes aren't much different to comprehensives and they get the same funding. Is it literally just a case of because they do the 11+ they tend to only take on the more academically inclined kids. Does this translate to less bad behaviour etc compared to comprehensive schools?

The move is going to be stressful with us both trying to find new jobs plus moving further away from both our families I want it to be worth it! Our local comprehensive is awful for results and we want to give the kids the best opportunities.

Personally I would rather homeschool and fully keep them out of the school system but my partner is very against this and is determined we need to move to a grammar school area so any advise to aid our discussion would be amazing!

Are we being unreasonable to relocate for the possibility of grammar school?

Lots of familys probably have 2 full time working parents so don't have the option of homeschooling or being picky about where their kids go to school. Some parents may love the area they live in and may like their local schools. Lots of parents have no worries or issues with the education system. Some parents aren't that fussed about education and send their kids to school because its just what you do.

I don't think their is anything wrong with thinking hard about where I want my kids to go. It is also harder as I would prefer to keep him at home at least for a few years whereas my partner would prefer he went to school. This makes it a more complicated situation.

Oh boy. You have a long, stressful few years ahead of you.

I really, really hated swimming lessons and didn't say a word at home. Since then, I have spent hours of my adult life in swimming pools, lakes and oceans loving every minute. Swimming is a key skill and can save your life.

When I was in loco parentis for a friend's 15-year old daughter, I left for work one morning reminding her that she needed to go to the laundrette in preparation for a school trip departing the following day. When I got back home, she hadn't gone to the laundrette because she hadn't felt like it. The consequence? She had to pack dirty clothes and wear them for a week in Italy. That's what happens when your mother doesn't insist you do things you find disagreeable.

Our positions are very different. I don't believe a human being can qet through 18 years of life without doing things they don't like. You believe that it is possible, with parental support. You have a very difficult 20 years ahead of you.

Typo

Did you not think to discuss how you would bring up your children before creating them? The differences between you sound pretty fundamental.

There is a difference between not liking something and hating it and it making you anxious and depressed.

No if my kids were sent to school and they just couldn't be bothered or wasn't in the mood then no I wouldn't pull them out. If my child is coming home every single day crying, miserable, if feedback from school is they are withdrawn and clearly distressed at being there then hell yes I would pull them out unless school had a way of changing it.

As I said there is a difference between not wanting to do something and being forced to do something which is clearly affecting your health and wellbeing.

Honestly I knew before I had kids I wasn't a fan of schools but I was in my career and when I got pregnant I convinced myself I would want to continue my career to have lots of money and we would move back to Essex by the time they started school and get them into one of the very good primarys there with the option of grammar or private secondary.

Within 2 months of DS being born I knew I wasn't going to return to my job after maternity leave and that meant not being able to move back to Essex and opened up a new possibility of me being able to homeschool them instead. This is when the slight disagreement started as my partner is still keen for them to go to school whereas in my mind without my career I have other options.

I don't disagree. We have a lot to work out before school applications next year.

I am sure that virtually every parent would withdraw their child from school under the circumstances you describe, including me. But that experience is not the experience of the majority yet you are already imagining it when your elder child is two!

I do imagine it because as a parent who doesn't want to send their child to school it is a worry.

Of course there are 2 of us in this parenting journey so it isn't just about what I want hence I am not forcing my partner to let me homeschool. We are having long discussions regarding the present and future to try and make a decision which is best for our kids and also for us.

However as stated I wont let my kids be miserable in school if my partner gets what he wants and they attend. If they want out and I am at home anyway and can homeschool them I will if they are seriously unhappy.

'As a parent who doesn't want to send their child to school.' It's only a matter of time before your anxiety transfers itself to your children. Perhaps confronting your anxiety about school eg through counselling might relieve some of the pressure on the discussions you are having with your DP.

Had plenty of therapy over the years regarding my anxiety. My reasons for not wanting to send my kids to school isn't to do with anxiety. Its to do with not wanting my 4-5 year old stuck at school for over 6 hours a day 5 days a week. Its me not wanting my kids sat in a classroom of 30 kids wasting their days with teachers dealing with issues or not having the time to help kids because their are so many.

But as I said its not just about what I want. If my partner insists on school then I will have to be open to it but only if we find a school we are happy with and on the agreement they can come out of it if they are unhappy.

Of course my child could end up being the disruptive one or the one with SEN. You never know but I don't think it makes me 'anxious' when many many parents are choosing to home educate because lots don't like the school system or feel failed by the school system.

My partner already let me give up my career despite not wanting me to so I am trying to be open minded for him hence exploring our options.

Your starting point is that the school system is terrible and you don't want your children to be part of it. Your starting point is extreme and fixed, the very opposite of open-minded.

Children educated at home may be rising but it's still what, 1.5% of the relevant age group? And not all of it is voluntary.

I think given your area you might find there aren't many other home educating families which could be something to consider. I haven't tried it myself but if I did I'd want a few other families to hang out with or it'd be a bit lonely.

I am open minded in the sense of if me insisting on homeschooling from the beginning would cause serious issues between me and my partner I am willing to explore school options outside our catchment area.

In my heart I know I want to keep him at home until at least year 3 as I don't think a 4-5 year old needs to be in school 5 days a week. But my partner doesn't agree and doesn't think it will be good for him so I am open to looking at other options even if thats not what I want for my kids.

So thats about as open minded as I can be on the subject.

I see more and more home educating posts even in my area (although I would most likely look at groups outside of our area as we aren't keen on it).

Homeschooling is always going to be a much lower amount as how many parents can afford to live on only 1 salary and lots of women don't want to give up their careers even if they can (good for them if thats what they want!)

I can see the appeal if you're in North London or say Cambridge. I can't in a thinly populated local area - but locate some nearby groups and go along? See what you think.

Something else to consider is the falling birth rate. Schools will be closing and amalgamating in many areas.

I think you’re fundamentally misunderstanding what primary school is like. Learning is play based for the first few years. They’re not sitting at desks like you’re imagining. My child’s school was mostly free flow until year 1 or 2. Even then, what they do is fun - she’s year 6 now and she loves it. She makes sculptures, they write plays and stories and it’s so much more imaginative and stimulating than being sat taught by you, who has no experience. Why don’t you actually go and visit some schools.

And without trying to sound rude, but it’s relevant, your posts are full of typos and bad grammar ie consistent wrong uses of their/ there. No that doesn’t matter for a forum, but it matters if you’re your child’s sole educator.

That isn't how it is for my niece and nephews. My 5 year old nephew is learning fractions and factoring. I don't think a 5 year old needs to be learning this sort of thing. They should be playing!

We will be visiting schools once we narrow down some in areas that we like and with good results. Its then working out if the ones we like are commutable with only 1 car so lots to think about.

I don't tend to worry too much whilst typing on my phone on a forum. I can also learn plenty of things if by a miracle I managed to get my partner on board for homeschooling. I very much doubt he is going to concede but if he did I am more than capable of brushing up on things.

I agree primary school is wonderful. When I think of some of the amazing things my DD did - a project on dinosaurs that began with a visit to the local butcher to discuss a pile of bones he had found when he opened up the shop, a poetry trail in the park with envelopes pinned on trees, the classroom door dressed as a wardrobe to introduce C S Lewis - I do think home-schooled children miss out. I can quite see how home schooling is a great option for neuro-diverse children, some school refusers and those with acute anxiety but it's a big load to bear for the parent.

Yes they have the academically best children with the most motivated parents but the head can make a tremendous difference. I have 2 children at different grammars and they couldn't be more different. Every opportunity possible is offered at one, arts, sports, music. You name it, they do it. They are proactive and nurturing. The other is just academics with few extracurricular activities and less trips. Reactive with an inability to communicate. Not all grammars are equal.

So what you will need to do is research 'furthest distance admitted' distances carefully for out of area schools (you should hopefully be able to find this info on local council websites in a booklet called something like "Starting primary school in 'local authority name'"), to see if you have a realistic shot at out of area ones. While being careful that the reason they've got spaces isn't that they're teetering on the edge of collapse due to falling rolls!

Also find out if your area has separate Infant and Junior Schools as then starting in KS2 could be an option possibly

I find it very hard to believe a five-year old is learning fractions and factoring. They learn that in year 5, not at 5 years old.

Another point to add to your growing list. It sounds as though you have clear ideas about what a child should learn and when. The inherent risk with a parent-determined primary curriculum is that if your child wants to go to school for secondary level (or you decide to send them), that they have knowledge gaps and struggle. That means fewer choices at GCSE and beyond (A level, Apprenticeship, degree), reduced career choice and diminished earnings potential.

Unfortunately around here we dont have infant and juniors which is a shame!