To think male nursery workers should be banned for safety reasons?

[Carla786]

I KNOW most men who work in them are fine but sexual abuse in nurseries is overwhelmingly committed by men. No more men, much less abuse risk.
Yes we need more CCTV etc to watch bad women but it cuts SA risk immeasurably.

We can still have male primary teachers etc kids are old enough to speak up then.

And yes, you can ban on the basis of sex for safety reasons. In women's refuges, eg.

That would mean caring for (unrelated) babies and toddlers would become, officially and legally, “women’s work.”

That would be ideal sure, but not always possible for parents who need to work.

Yeah, I've heard that. I'm not sure if they have the same 'right' to request a female as someone requesting same sex though.

I'd hope it's simply because they think women are nicer in general but there could be an element of being pervy when they just might fancy the female carer or ',enjoy' her touching him.

I have a son and feel it is part of my role to teach him the realities of the world - including that there are sick disturbed people of both sexes in the world and what statistics tell us about different offending rates, and what statistics do and don't mean. And that also includes that he happens to fall into the sex class that has higher offending rates in these type of crimes, just as I fall into the sex class with higher rates of different crimes. And to take that understanding into choosing his job and in understanding why parents make the safe guarding decisions they do - rather than getting his feelings hurt. In reality I think you'll find less men arguing against banning men in childcare than you do women.

Then the solution is to make it easier to stay home during this period. That's a social issue.

Do you ever wonder why women want to work in a nursery? Because those are the same reasons that most men in the sector want to, too.

☝️ excellent point!

I'm torn on this subject as a mother of sons, one of whom did a placement in a nursery and went on to become a nurse. They had safeguarding procedures in place, he wasn't allowed in the toilets with the toddlers and he was given one boy to be responsible for nappy changes in the main room. He was absolutely adored by the children and I can guarantee that he was of no harm to them but it did bother me what the parents might think about him choosing to be there as its unusual for a teenage boy and, although those measures were in place there were occasions that he came back and told me things that I was uncomfortable with........ but only because of him being put in a position where he could be accused of doing something wrong. Eg he was left alone most nights with one little girl who was always last to be picked up, he read books to her whilst looking out of the window for her parent which she would run to him for. I don't think the nursery was well run and i was glad when he finished although I never said any of this to him as i didn't want to make him feel uncomfortable.

So I fully agree with @JemimaTiggywinkles the managers/owners of these businesses should be held to greater account.

Women’s work is always low status, it’s the patriarchy. As soon as a job traditionally done by men becomes women’s work the pay drops, and vice versa. Now I agree this shouldn’t happen, but the reality in this world is that it has and does.

Secondly, if only women are doing intimate care for old/disabled MEN they are going to seriously damage their backs. Lifting heavy men is why nurses often end up needing knee replacements, back surgeries and have a high rate of disability before age 50 - and therefore die in elder poverty.

It’s such a sound bite to say better pay, conditions, training and respect but you have to know that is like saying a fairy godmother will bring you a rainbow unicorn for your birthday. It’s not ever going to happen. Because the state and families will never ever be able to pay high wages for this work. The higher the costs of care, the more women are coerced into dropping out of the workforce to provide unpaid care to family members- including children.

It’s already happening due to the exorbitant costs of nursery/daycare.

If men are banned from this sort of work simply because they are more likely to abuse, then we will see the gender pay gap widen and women’s employment rights eroded.

Abuse will still happen to the children, disabled and elderly because women also offend albeit at lower rates.

Safeguards is the better, cheaper option. You’d need to improve them anyway, because you’d still have victims of abuse.

I agree. I would vote with my feet. I would take my child out of a nursery if they employed men

Totally fine. I don’t understand what you’re getting at. Children’s safety trumps other people’s feelings.

My DH was also a SAHD so doesn't think that childcare is a woman's job in a family. But he also understands concerns with male nursery workers. Like me he is conflicted but agrees that overall the risks are too high.

No I quite agree, raising sons involves teaching them to be better.

I do however think that saying a conversation about child abuse isn’t about male children (boys) is a step too far.

I would bet money that incidents of SA in a nursery setting are far lower than deliberate acts of cruelty and neglect. There are a similar number of high profile cases involving female workers mistreating children in their care, like Roksana Lecka, Aini Berrington and Kimberley Cookson, as there are male workers charged with sexual offences. Is the answer banning vicious young women of a certain age from looking after pre-school children? Of course not. The answer, as other PP have said, is more stringent safeguarding in these settings so no worker of either gender can commit crimes against children.

The men who genuinely want to work with children will want to work with them for similar reasons as to why women who genuinely want to work with children work with them.

Nurseries are for babies up to age 3-4. There is plenty of time for children to be exposed to “male role models” after that, even the ones who don’t have any male family members. It’s hardly like a 2 year old is going to see a male nursery worker and think “wow, so childcare work isn’t only for women”.

The priority should be children’s safety and a load of whataboutery saying that women abuse too, kids can be abused by family members, older kids can be abused…yes no one is saying that banning men from nurseries will stop all paedophiles, but it would eliminate some easy opportunities for a large number of them.

Nice men who just love working with kids can become a nanny (for those families who are fine with it) or an early years primary teacher or run beavers or something, and be a great male role model for children who might actually have some consciousness about what that would mean.

There definitely is a pervy element to it.

Yes, I have sons too, and I’ve really never found these conversations difficult. I’ve talked to them about why women who don’t know them might be scared of them and why they need to give women space when walking at night, for example. They haven’t as far as I know declared their feelings very very hurt and turned to the manosphere.

Is there an easy way to spot the difference between a man who just loves kids and a man who just loves abusing kids?

I agree - male children are as much at risk as female. More in some settings.

Nope

I agree but I don’t think anyone said that, did they?

It's probably as easy as spotting women who love kids vs. women who love abusing kids.

Yeah I'm glad I'm not just thinking badly of men. Well I am but for good reason.

Of course not.

Just like there isn't an easy way to spot the difference between young women who just loves kids and those young women who end up physically abusing them which we've also had far, far too many cases of lately.

I’m not labouring this point all night, as it’s not the point of the thread.

However, is OP was considering children of both sexes as equal importance in this discussion she wouldn’t have said “men & boys' feelings,” she’d have said “anyone’s” feelings.

There was no reason to clearly state that boys feelings don’t matter, if the thread and concern applies to both.