To think male nursery workers should be banned for safety reasons?

[Carla786]

I KNOW most men who work in them are fine but sexual abuse in nurseries is overwhelmingly committed by men. No more men, much less abuse risk.
Yes we need more CCTV etc to watch bad women but it cuts SA risk immeasurably.

We can still have male primary teachers etc kids are old enough to speak up then.

And yes, you can ban on the basis of sex for safety reasons. In women's refuges, eg.

Yes

Why is it offensive to prioritise children's safety from sexual abuse over men's feelings???

I DON 'T want to upset any men, but there are worse things in the world than hurt feelings.

Thank you!

Finally a sensible comment.

I know right! Sickening.

Which makes sense. It's a woman's only space.

Nurseries aren't the same thing.

Men and boys feelings, you said?

Boys are children, and this thread is about the safety of all children. So maybe don’t exclude the feelings of male ones.

Why? Please explain.

I DON'T want to hurt boys' feelings either!

But the general safety of children from sexual abuse is more important than some boys having hurt feelings.

Banning men would protect boys too, they are very often abused.

Agreed. Call me a bigot. I'd rather be called a bigot than be responsible for facilitating one of these perverse monsters.

I already did in my 1st post. You hate men it appears.

No I don't, what a silly post.

Exactly

Women are statistically much more likely to murder children under the age of 1 than men (known as infanticide). Maybe women shouldn’t be allowed to look after children under 1.

Preventing infanticide is the absolute priority.

DH was DD's primary carer for 4 years while I built my career. I'm glad MIL and FIL raised him well to know that childcare is the work of both parents, not just the woman.

Having seen the effects on young men of being automatically suspected because of nothing more than being male, I developed a sympathy for why there is a problem with young men becoming drawn into the 'manosphere'. I started to sympathise with these men in a way I never thought I would. Yes, there are problems, tarring all men with suspicion is not the solution.

There's another solution. Stay home with your own young kids yourself. That's what I did. If we want to protect children, why not make this an easier option for those who feel they can't afford to make that choice?

Okay.

Rephrase that with “more important than some girl’s feelings,” and see how comfortable you feel?

Most men are NOT bad. The problem is that the ones volunteering for nursery work are much more likely to be.

If you're going to make such an inflammatory statement as that, you need to back it up. Where's your proof that men volunteering for nursery work are doing so with the intent of committing abuse?

You’ll likely be flamed for this opinion, as MN in particular seem to have a large bunch who really take offence at this topic.. however, I’m in complete agreement with you.

I have no issue with male primary school teachers etc (no toileting support needed and the child is usually fully verbal and able to flag concerns etc by this age) but feel VERY uncomfortable with the idea of a man having unsupervised access to babies/young toddlers private parts whilst changing nappies/supporting with toileting etc, so much so we refused to have a male nursery worker do any toileting/changing for our 2 year old twin daughters- our children, our choice and the nursery respected this.

sadly CSA is disproportionately more likely to be carried out by a man than a woman, and whilst I totally agree it’s ’not all men’ we weren’t willing to roll the dice on those odds when our children are at such a vulnerable age.

I don’t give a shit whether it’s more likely for a man to abuse my child in nursery when I know that there are cases of sadistic female staff. I don’t want to simply reduce risk, I want my kid to actually be safe.
the way to achieve that is through increased safeguarding protocols are such as making sure there are at least two adults in the room at any time, not allowing phones on site and the various other interventions which are proposed.
Banning men would have numerous negative impacts including perpetuating misogynistic ideas about who has to do the childcare and bumwiping. We can do better than this.

I also think that a blanket ban like this would leave to more complacency which wouldn’t necessarily protect children anyway. it’s complacency which is often the cause of the issues.

I work in early years. I think my colleagues are great but I’m not daft enough to think that means there is zero risk because that’s when complacency sets it. Much better to report and be found wrong than to ignore and be found right

Don't roll the dice at all. Stay home with your children rather than leave them in the care of strangers. It's always a gamble, male or female.

I don't think banning men is the answer. And I'm not naive to the risks of SA - there are two young girls in my extended family (that I know of) who have been SA by teenage or adult men. But there are benefits to having positive male role models in young children's lives, and to living in a society where childcare isn't seen as "women's work" (because despite @101SpottyDogs idealism, work that is seen as the preserve of women - nursing, teaching, working on reception, home care, cleaning etc - is generally stigmatised and devalued in terms of pay. I don't want to live in a society where childcare is even more devalued than it currently is.
I think the answer is better parental leave so that parents actually have a choice about whether to use nurseries for their non-verbal children. And properly staffing early years settings with better ratios and better paid, more highly trained staff. It's insane to me that those caring for some of the most vulnerable people in society are poorly trained and paid minimum wage, while many people who do nothing of any real value are paid ££££. If there were enough staff to ensure that nobody was alone with a child for any length of time then there would be no opportunity for abuse. But that would require proper investment in the sector.
At my DC's nursery, two small things they do to reduce the risk is that the changing table is in a very visible location, and if nappy cream needs to be applied then 2 members of staff need to agree that it's necessary and sign it out almost like it's a controlled drug. But, we pay over the odds for a setting that pays its staff well, so has good retention and doesn't struggle to recruit, so it's very well staffed. In a nursery that's struggling with staffing that probably isn't possible.

I've often wondered WHY a man wants to work in a nursery, the cycnic in me always thinks it's for an ulterior motive, I know it's not all men but it's something that has never sat right with me..

Most road accidents involve cars, maybe we should ban them all too?