To think male nursery workers should be banned for safety reasons?

[Carla786]

I KNOW most men who work in them are fine but sexual abuse in nurseries is overwhelmingly committed by men. No more men, much less abuse risk.
Yes we need more CCTV etc to watch bad women but it cuts SA risk immeasurably.

We can still have male primary teachers etc kids are old enough to speak up then.

And yes, you can ban on the basis of sex for safety reasons. In women's refuges, eg.

Ridiculous post. This is why men (and boys) are becoming so misogynistic when women are coming up with crap like this. Im scared for my son to be bought up in a world of this man hating/assuming every man is a nonce idealogy

Mumsnet: it's outrageous that society expects women to do all early years childcare. Why are men so lazy?

Also Mumsnet: ban men from early years childcare

Do you not understand : men in nurseries have just as mucn opportunity and are more likely to be abusers who do the job to seek out kids.

Family member have higher rates due to opportunity, not because they are inherently more dangerous.

I totally support women working, I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't as I love my own work.

Women who work in nurseries should be fairly paid and respected.

Fathers doing it is different from nursery workers who have been shown to be disproportionately likely to be doing it for that reason.
Read the Guardian article.

Just on those commenting on care staff/staff in schools etc …

I’ve got an autistic 9 year old who wouldn’t be able to communicate any issues with his school staff, including abuse.

He isn’t toilet trained and still requires changing during the school day. I would far, far rather that was done by a male.

In much the same was I would prefer a male doesn’t provide me with intimate care, particularly if I was in a vulnerable position, I don’t believe we should be forcing disabled children and adults into opposite sex care either, particularly if they lack the capacity or communication to tell you.

It cuts both ways.

So women's rational fears cause men's misogyny? Blaming, much?

Moreover, I am NOT saying every man is a nonce. The Guardian article quotes studies showing men who are are more likely to seek out childcare jobs. They are NOT representative of all men.

Of course most are fine.

This is really hard...I understand what you mean. But otoh, a male worker is more likely to pose an SA risk.

I wish!

Doesn't this just reinforce the idea that childcare is women's work? It'd then be hard to argue the opposite for the home environment, and the balance of parenting responsibilities becomes even more inequal and women suffer more.

I think it stands to reason that if you would prefer a man wasn’t providing you with intimate care, and you’d prefer them nowhere near your genitals, disabled children and adults deserve the same dignity.

We can’t (rightly) say that men don’t belong in female same sex spaces, and then be advocating for women to be solely responsible for male care. That doesn’t add up.

This is true.

What would we rather?

Or male carers stick to caring for other males?

I don't think it's an either/or, I think nurseries need across-the-board, strongly enforced, much stronger safeguarding practices and policies, with frequent unannounced inspections to ensure they're being followed and implemented.

Yes you are being very unreasonable. A ridiculous idea to ban all men from a particular job based on the terrible actions of a few. This is outright discrimination. How on earth could we argue for women's rights and equality if a prejudiced idea such as this came to be.

That’s precisely why a blanket ban wouldn’t work, it would have to be sex segregated IMO.

I provide personal care staff to SENd schools for a living, and once a child hits KS2, they generally won’t employ male staff unless it’s for the male cohort.

Some settings are already doing this, which would be preferable to a whole male ban, I think.

I don't think it does. Men who work in childcare are much mire likely to be paedophiles doing so to seek out kids, according to studies. The average father is not.

Anyway, preventing SA is the absolute priority.

What investigations would those be?

You say ‘woman’s work’ like it’s a bad thing. It’s your misogynistic attitude that devalues it.

it IS women’s work. It’s work that is so important that it should only be done by a woman.

I don’t agree with banning men from early years settings but I do agree with proper safeguarding procedures. Nappies etc should be changed in the room the other care workers and children are in. This was the case at my dcs nursery. They shouldn’t be allowed to take children off in private!

Men should share childcare equally at home though.

Men in nurseries are different, more likely to be paedophiles unluckily so too dangerous.

Finally, female nursery workers need fair pay & respect

Good article from a former (male) prisoners

https://spectator.com/article/its-time-to-ban-men-from-working-in-nurseries/

I did, but I didn't come to the same conclusion that you did from it. Not least because you entirely missed the point the article made about the risk from women.

But let's get down to the core of it. What, to you, represents an acceptable risk:

1. a male care worker in a nursery
2. a male parent being in sole care of a nursery-aged child
3. a male care worker in a primary school-aged breakfast club / after-school club
4. a male parent being in sole care of a primary school-aged child

Or something else?

No. Men who work in childcare are much mire likely to be paedophiles doing so to seek out kids, according to studies. The average father is not.

Anyway, preventing SA is the absolute priority.

1, no. 2, 3 and 4, yes.

I don't know why it's a controversial take.

"Let's ban men, who are more likely to be paedophiles, from settings where they are able to abuse and rape untold amounts of children"

Is aways met with "but family members...." OK but family members are never going to be banned, and generally family members don't have unlimited amounts of children they have access to. It's not comparible.

Or "But women..." OK but the fact you can practically name every woman who has sexually abused a child at nursery whereas you wouldn't even know where to start with a list of men is telling.

Then we have "But care workers/doctors/nurses" - male care workers shouldn't be involved in the intimate care of women and children and doctors and nurses should always have a chaperone.

Doing something that would cut down well over 90% of sexual abuse in nurseries shouldn't be a hot take, it's just common sense, and I don't care how many blokes it offends or how many women say the best nursery workers are men, or their uncle/cousin/son/neighbour is the bestest of the best at working with kids.