To manipulate my mother…

[MarianaMonterey]

Well, it feels like it. Am I?

My mother is a very ‘hard’ person. She believes you should put yourself first in life and has somewhat performatively done so. OK, that’s her right. But then also she expects to be treated the same as other mums/granny’s who have been there for their families, and is offended that I don’t. She doesn’t seem to get that she can’t have it both ways.

Lately she’s adopted quite a ‘boomer’ attitude and her idea of her ‘rights’ at the expense of other people’s have become rude and entitled. She’s developed an almost paranoid need for complete autonomy that is verging on controlling at times.

She lives abroad and wants to sell her house here. I would like to buy it. I expect to pay market value, but she is being very evasive about what the specialist valuation is. I suspect she is overvaluing it in her head (it’s a very non-standard property and needs a lot of work) or she doesn’t want me to buy it (she seems to have taken against my partner, and he’s done lots there for her. I think that’s why she’s being so odd over it) She is not planning to declare tax in either country. She is minimising or discounting real problems with it. She is over-playing work she has had done. She is ‘forgetting’ work I have done over the years. She’s described a very generous offer for just the derelict ‘orchard’ by a neighbour as ‘taking the piss’ (and it’s absolutely not!).

Of course, she can just say no and sell to the highest bidder. She doesn’t owe me anything. But given her general approach, I’m thinking about framing my request to buy it in terms of tax advantage (or any other way I can think of to sway her). I believe she would, in my shoes. I do not expect her to sell to me for less than it’s worth (although if the positions were reversed I would take a bit off for family). I’m pretty confident no one else will pay it either. I’ve my own timeline to work to, though, so I don’t want to be kept hanging for a few years while she figures it out in her somewhat arrogant way and it seems like she would.

Am I being unreasonable to be selective in how I frame my offer? Or is it manipulative and I should just offer as I would a stranger, be upfront about my reasons and reservations as I would with family and then walk away if she wants to keep playing controlling games rather than join in? I don’t usually - she isn’t hard up and I’m definitely not trying to con her. But I feel like I am. Am I overthinking this?

I wouldn't touch that house. Even if you reach an agreement, she will hold it over you for the rest of her life. She may even decide that as she sold it to you, she can come and stay whenever she likes. Be careful, OP.

Honestly why are you so obsessed by this house? There must be others, buy one of them. Why add unnecessary drama?

I'd love to hear your mother's side of the story.

She's reluctant to sell to you because she wants to maximise her gain, just like anyone does when they sell their house.
You come across as a narcissist for thinking otherwise.
She could sell to someone else and you could buy from someone else, and you d both be happier. I'm guessing the root of your problem is a sense of either entitlement or deep attachment to the property, and the bitterness against your mother is because you are only just processing how you don't just get given the property of a parent.
You sound really young.

If I was, I would have just manipulated the situation to my advantage without a second thought. I specifically used the term ‘boomer’ in quotes because it seemed the quickest way to make the point on an already long post. And in her case it IS an apt description. I wouldn’t apply it generically or to anyone I didn’t know.

I really don’t know how else to describe it. This sniffy, derogatory attitude that she’s earned everything she has, that no one has had it as hard as she has, that everyone has a ‘something’ nowadays. That she needn’t be obliged to be civil, or be inconvenienced by anyone else’s struggle, but can demand respect for hers. It’s unbelievable arrogant and entitled. She’s always been like it, but it’s much worse lately.

I would take her being cagey and evasive about the house to mean that she has no intention of selling it to you. For one, you know the issues with the house that would reduce the value of it, and she likely thinks she’ll get a better price elsewhere.

A tax advantage isn’t going to sway her if she doesn’t intend to pay any tax in the first place.

Forget about the house and move on. It sounds like she doesn't want to sell it to you. It sounds like you both like to play games and battle for power. I couldn't be bothered with all this drama.

Boomer attitude. Fucking hell. Ageism is alive and kicking as ever. Absolutely horrible. What generation are you from OP? So I can lump you in with every other person born during that timeframe.

I knew what you meant by that phrase - I have an example in my own family. And luckily others of a similar generation who are nothing like this!

why this house? Is it sentimental reasons or just a great location etc? Can you not get something similar which doesn’t come with the emotional baggage and potential hassle your mother will inevitably create?

I mean, she’s had a specialist valuation. She could just tell me….

I personally would put this one in the too hard basket. If you are willing to pay market value, pay this for a house that you don't have to buy from your mother. The only way it would be worth it would be if you got a significant discount, which you won't.

It sounds like some sort of game and both of you feel the need to come out on top? If you can't put in a reasonable offer and your Mum can't consider it seriously, all this manipulation and one upmanship makes me think it would be a disaster for your already odd relationship.

She doesn’t want to sell it to you. You really would be better served by letting go of this house.

Do you really want this house of hers that badly? Or has it become almost a way to try and regain some kind of control in a situation where you feel she has dominated too much?

She just sounds difficult all round and the last person I'd want to be buying a house off. Though with an agent involved you really should have zero direct contact with the buyer.

If I were you I'd just keep my distance. She wants control in her life and you're not there to stop her. Make it plain she can do as she pleases. But it doesn't mean you need to be involved in any of it.

But why do you want to deal with her? You have a choice.

I was a bit confused by your post above.. did you mean that was her views OP. I don't understand anyway so I'll focusing on your main question about the house.

Anyway. Get written quote from 2-3 estate agents. Get a quote for how much they would charge to sell the house. How long they think it would take.

I'm assuming here that she does very much want to sell and that currently you are doing the upkeep on the house, keeping an eye on it and she expects you to facilitate the sale. It sort of sounds like its an empty property? Unless in fact you actually live there so a sale would make you homeless.

List the obvious things that need repairing or any structural issues you know about and how much it would take to put it right.

List the work you've done on the house for her and how much that would cost if she employed someone else.
Remind her of the time and effort you are currently spending and what the agents say is required to make the house ready for sale, finding conveyancing solicitors, furniture removal, painting, paperwork etc. How much she'd save on council tax and any other utility bills that are needed to keep an empty property going.

I don't consider that manipulation, but giving her the realistic facts.
Give her time to go through this and ask what she wants to do...
Once she has considered.. I'd make my offer then. and remind her that selling to you involves hardly an effort on her part, and she would save on fees and last minute challenges from a buyer.

If she tries to stump you up for an overly inflated price, despite what estate agents say.. give her an estimated cost for someone else to handle the sale from start to finish and all the preparation involved so she can see that a sale to you comes with added value, particularly as she lives abroad that she is not currently appreciating.

I think I would avoid dealing with her altogether!

Why should she show you the valuation? You're asking to buy, asking to see the valuation is like playing Poker and asking to see you opponent's hand.
This isn't really about the house anyway, is it? Your thread title even points to that. Maybe go LC or even NC with your mother and calm your lives.

I’m not obsessed. It would just suit me particularly well. If she says no, I’ll buy something else. But I’ve put a fair bit of work into it, I know it’s pitfalls and advantages - I lived there for five years. It’s an unusual property and starting from cold takes legwork when you need a non standard house. It’s empty. No chain, no EA fees. All kinds of advantages. I even know the neighbours (and the ones she has disputes with she’s not intending to declare. Funnily enough, I get along just fine with them…)

I just want to frame my offer with the best chance of acceptance. But it feels deceptive to me not be open about it. If my mother was not who she is, I wouldn’t dream of it. But she is. And she definitely would. I don’t like the idea of sinking to her level, but she absolutely would (and is) conceal anything she thought would influence my decision away from the one she wanted and exaggerate any information she thought would push me towards what she wanted. It’s very manipulative with a relative. A stranger, well, caveat emptor!

I’m 48. I’ve bought, sold, let and built houses. I specifically SAID I would pay market value for it. But she’s concealing what that is, presumably because it’s below the price she will accept from me. Of course I could get another, and she knows that. So why mess about? Also it’s a specialist valuation, I don’t know who she used (or what she told them!) it’s in no one’s interest to repeat it.

I’m not bitter. She is who she is. That has very much been her choice, and I accepted it a long time ago. I included the history to be clear I’m not defrauding a sweet little old lady here. I’m trying to work with a difficult woman who has very different family values to me. There isn’t a chance she would tolerate her own behaviour from anyone, and she’s very proud of that (without for a moment seeing the issues with it). No one else in the family has any time for her. It doesn’t feel right because this is not my nature. But it is hers.

So would I. But she will only tell me what’s good for her and she thinks I deserve to know. So we’re all in the dark on that one.

If you like, she can shout and swear at you while getting aggressively in your face, having purposely waited to have her tantrum until she can block your exit so you can’t walk away. I don’t mind forgoing that.

I am also in the don't do it camp. She will hold it over you. Say what a good deal she gave you. Expect to stay there etc Keep your life separate from hers.

Could you commission a second specialist valuation, @MarianaMonterey?

OP, your mother sounds painful.
Drop the rope.
Show no further interest in the house and move on from it.
Distance yourself and put her on a complete information diet.

Start actively looking at property.
Only someone with a personality disorder behaves like that.

Tell her that you think its best you buy elsewhere as her drama simply doesn't interest you.

She would have to act quickly in good faith to persuade me to change my mind.

She's using this power tripping as a life diversion, don't allow her to.

You lost me too. I think maybe your Mother knows what a manipulative person you are. I would love to hear this from her point of view.
I am a boomer, in a very big cohort. Not all of us are loaded. My adult children earn well. They are glad I can manage my finances. Thank God I don't have a bitter ageist adult daughter like you.
Why are you so keen to buy your Mothers house, sorry but I do think you are hoping to get it cheaper.