Lucy letby

[bloomingbonkerz]

Do you think she did it ? Watched the documentary and I’m not sure she should have been convicted

I think the way the programme was reported made it look like she answered some questions but not others during the same interview.

On occasions when she was interviewed (quite possibly the first and/or second arrest) she answered the questions put to her. Her hair is a different length when she answers "no comment", which seems most likely to be on the advice of her solicitor after her third arrest.

She may have been better going no comment from the outset. Presumably if innocent she thought she'd be able to prove it or if guilty thought it would make her look helpful by answering.

Good night! 👋

Who knows-maybe it was just chance, or she used an implement only on that small area. The point is the injury is consistent with either a car crash victim or one who has been harmed by their caregivers. That's obviously the important part-and that's the pathologists expert opinion. He's not seen that type of injury anywhere else. I'm sure he's considered all these questions already and it didn't change his opinion.

I am also wondering what was prosecution answer to the question of her constantly changing "methods" ? E.g. why would she poison a child with insulin when she knew it would come up in the blood test? Why wouldn't she use air embolism all the time since it was so difficult to diagnose?

I think it was proven in court she didn't know about c-peptide levels so didn't actually know the test would prove poisoning. By that point a lot of deaths had happened on her shifts and she needed something to happen when she wasn't there before people started asking questions. If she poisoned the bags the baby would deteriorate gradually whilst she wasn't on shift. IIRC she wanted updates on the baby later on that day after she'd left work.

So you don't find it problematic in a criminal trial contingent on reasonable doubt that an "expert" can say she must have done something, because she was there, but it doesn't matter what?

You can't say things like "force of a car crash" without suggesting a mechanism at least. Use your brain. Doing something with that level of violence unobserved in a NICU and with no other signs is ludicrous.

And how did she get past the ribs?

Actually a doctor caused the liver injury by sticking a needle in the wrong side of Baby O.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/letby-victim-baby-o-had-liver-lacerated-in-medical-blunder-expert-claims-after-w-5Hjcwty_2/

Additional grounds for appeal came from Dr Richard Taylor, a neonatologist from Victoria, British Columbia, who explained that the full report into Baby O's death left him "disturbed".
The neonatal doctor explained the full report into the baby's death revealed medics were trying to release a build up of gas in the baby's abdomen, known as apnoea, when they inserted a needle into the right side instead of the left.

The high pressure from the gas buildup saw the baby's liver pushed down towards its hips, with the doctor ultimately "lacerating the liver by mistake" due to the organ's movement, the expert claimed.
As part of the press conference held on Monday, Letby's team took aim at the doctor in question, suggesting they must be "unable to sleep at night" following the nurse's conviction.

Very useful and insightful article.

It’s not very scientific but I found it unsettling when the expert witness grinned and said he read about the unexplained baby deaths in the paper and thought ‘that’s right up my street!’. Especially as they have tried to paint Letby as the weirdo.
I don’t know if she is guilty of crime but in her position I can’t imagine what kinds of crisis scribblings I’d write down. I suppose I’d better double check if there’s a shredder in my house, who it belongs to and whether it works, just in case

So you don't find it problematic in a criminal trial contingent on reasonable doubt that an "expert" can say she must have done something, because she was there, but it doesn't matter what?

No I don't find it problematic. Didn't the judge say you can find her guilty without knowing exactly what she did? Isn't that how it works in most child abuse cases? Do you think people who abuse their children should be let off because they can't ascertain if it was a kick or a punch or something else?

The baby collapsed with a severe liver injury not explainable by natural causes and she had the opportunity to do it-that's why she must have done something.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice I think they had to row back on that one ages ago. A doctor was already desperately trying to save the baby by that point so it doesn't explain the collapse in the first place.

No, they have not rowed back on that one’ in fact this new evidence has resulted in an inquest being opened into baby O’s death 6 days ago.

If you would like to read the article, it shows the other preceeding error by the doctor that caused the collapse in the first place before they inserted the needle into the wrong side of baby O causing the fatal injury to their liver.

as for opportunity for LL, that was merely circumstantial as it happened when she was on shift…as was everyone else there.

You really don't want to go there, as I can guarantee I have far more knowledge and experience of how child protection cases are handled from the sharp end.

"Doing something with that level of violence unobserved in a NICU and with no other signs is ludicrous" -- even more unlikely: expecting to be unobserved and to leave no other signs. It may be theoretically possible to succeed at that, but how could she realistically expect that she would?

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel I should've put 'cashing in' in inverted comas. That phrase doesn't necessarily mean financially. Recognition and notoriety can be sort after too. There are lot of big ego's in medicine.
Like the old joke suggests, 'whats the difference between god & a consultant? God doesnt think he's a doctor'.

In a small room with a large viewing window to the corridor too

I think the international experts would be more likely to do something that would make them famous in their countries than the UK if that was their motivation

the case has more holes than a slice of cheese

I'm very sorry to hear that and I know exactly the damage you are talking about as a young family member is going through that exact thing now 😥 not a child abuse case, but she was the victim of a very serious crime and all professionals involved further compounded the harm.

It is a shame that more people don't analyse their beliefs and biases!!

Exactly, and the parents of the babies who got no verdict in the trial, or the parents of the babies in the trial who also believe there was substandard care, is anyone ever going to be accountable for that aspect of it? or the parents of the babies that were told by the police that they thought LL harmed their babies and the CPS didn't bring any charges.

Well I couldn’t sleep so I’ve just read the 58 appeal document and I’m still none the wiser. But I do think it was a mistake to tell the jury they should find her guilty if they think someone wilfully harmed the babies but they don’t know exactly how. Surely you would only know if it’s wilful harm if you know how it was done?

My biggest question both for and against her being guilty is why she would be standing next to the collapsed babies or drawing attention to her crimes (like with the throat trauma)

You are just making things up. She didn’t take confidential notes, they were her HO notes these were never meant to be filed in patient notes. someone said the akerisk is when someone is in charge on the ward, the ‘code’ LD stands for long day. There is no code. The police made these accusations up. Please tell how does taking your own notes home = being a serial killer?

Go & listen to Michelle Warden on Lucy letby analysis on YT who used to work as senior nurse on this actual ward before Lucy was there. She got made redundant. She explains what happens if a baby is overfed. She is very knowledgable. She knows the doctors involved.

Agreed… 💯…. She deserves a retrial.

https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/23459587.recap-lucy-letby-trial-monday-april-17/

It is just in the court reporting of that day.

Erm! I have no words. Will wait for the apology.