Lucy letby

[bloomingbonkerz]

Do you think she did it ? Watched the documentary and I’m not sure she should have been convicted

But your metaphorical use still applies more to Dewi Evans than to the panel of experts. Have you seen how many times he has appeared on tv, been interviewed, since the trial, and how much he talks about himself rather than the case?
Contrast that with the expert panel who gave their evidence at their own expense and went back to work. It is a real stretch to try to ascribe self interested motives to them with nothing to base that on. Evans on the other hand has talked about needing money for his daughter’s horses, he’s open about doing expert witness work for the income stream - he has cashed in both financially and for the 5 minutes of fame.

And as for the dubious dealings of the police with Netflix and their initial triumphalist Hummingbird documentary…. There has been some very unsavoury chasing of fame and glory in this case by people who should have been working with objectivity and caution.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-evidence-seen-during-lucy-letbys-murder-trial-from-handwritten-notes-to-cards-for-parents-12944606

She took home 257 confidential documents. According to her, she liked collecting paper and sometimes forgot to remove documents from her uniform.

I too think this is an unsafe conviction with reasonable doubt the sad deaths were not murders at all but medical malpractice or natural courses. The fact that the plumber said there was sewerage in the sinks on wards could be a another cause of many babies getting sick at the same time even without the. new expert’s reports as that could cause serious illness in babies and adults on the ward.

Thank you.

I think if I worked on a ward where I was concerned about quality of care I might keep records of when my patients had died, so this isn’t really proof of anything.

My mum used to have initials on her calendar. They were the initials of her late family and friends, and were entered on the anniversaries of their deaths. She didn’t murder any of them.

@Catpuss66 Do you know what a handover sheet is? They are very much confidential, despite the the fact that we add our own notes to them. They don't get filed in patient notes, you're right. They should be destroyed on the ward at the end of every shift. It's basic data protection.

Only she knows what her system was for.

Have you ever brought home hundreds of confidential documents and kept them?

That bit of court reporting above shows quite clearly that Netflix/police twisted and spun the stuff about the handover notes and the box in the ‘documentary’ to advance an untrue narrative and add weight to the non-evidence of the notes.

We also saw quite clearly that NJ lied about the PJs whilst creating a story to paint LL as a liar.

We already know that what NJ stated was ‘her favourite way of killing’ has been debunked as a way of killing both by many experienced medical experts but also publicly recanted by the very person who first put it in his witness statements and then lied on the stand when cross examined on it.

So I don’t know how anyone who can actually read or think could not have even a tiny question about exactly what was ‘tested’ in court.

You mean what a handover sheet is now or 10 yrs ago? Then it was a that persons own writing didn’t belong in hospital notes. I thought this Dr explained better than me. I do think working in the nhs for over 30+ yrs gives me some insight

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Dr Svilena Dimitrova

@NeoDoc11

I have not previously commented in detail on the issue of handover sheets. But this is yet another aspect of the Letby case that was grossly misinterpreted. So what should have the jury heard? It has historically been normal for clinicians to take handover sheets home deliberately. This is because maintaining auditable records of clinical work and undertaking continuing professional development (CPD) based on cases managed represents best practice, and this has always been encouraged – in fact – it’s a requirement for me as a doctor. They functioned as informal but practical records of patients managed, conditions encountered, procedures performed or supervised others to do etc. In reality, many clinicians achieve this through keeping historical handover sheets, despite this not being formally permitted. There is of course always the matter of ideal practice and the practical realities of clinical work - this was never adequately examined.

I agree it’s very weird. And it’s what initially made me think she’s guilty ( and I still have doubts to a certain extent) but I just don’t think the evidence is strong enough if you have other experts who say the statistics are wrong and it’s doubtful any murders took place.

she is definitely a bit odd but there didn’t seem to be anything else outside of work to point to it

Yes - I have about three bags full of documents I need to bring into work and shred some time, from having worked at home.

(Lucy Letby wrote up notes between shifts)

A page from Letby's 2016 diary is shown to the court, with a note on April 8: 'LD [long day] twins'. The following day is 'LD twins resus]. It is followed in a different coloured pen by 'Salsa - Buckley'.
A page of June 20-26 from Letby's diary, has for June 23: 'LD ([name of Child O's initial])'
June 24: 'LD ([name of Child P's initial) A+E'
June 25: 'LD ([name of Child Q's initial)'

What is so sinister about this? She's noting that she worked a long day and which child she was with and what happened. Is she supposed to just keep the information in her head when she writes notes etc?

(And that she went to A+E, Las Iguana and Salsa Dancing)

I completely agree. This was incredibly disrespectful to the families who had lost their babies. He was excited when he should have been somber.

I have always thought Lucy Letby was innocent, but I still occasionally think maybe I'm wrong.

Coming at it from a nursing background I am shocked by the way the consultants dealt with things. It is so far removed from normal practice for them to be so willing to discuss these events on national TV within days of the conviction that it made me uneasy. The NHS is a closed system as anyone who ever tries to make a complaint finds out.

The handover sheets is definitely strange but I have in the past taken sheets home and would want to make sure they weren't thrown in the bin intact so if I had a few I'd keep them together until I could dispose of them safely. We didn't always have a confidential waste bag at work in fact prior to handover sheets even being a thing we had notebooks that we took our reports in and they traveled back and forward with you to work and home again.

I think the case has been made and the CCRC will not send to the court of appeal

BUT

there’s something amiss with Brearey and ravi - the two drs - I just didn’t believe them when briefly shown bit of interview on panorama - they didn’t blink but the words coming out didn’t have an authentic feeling - and ravi seemed like he didn’t believe himself when he said “I better go in because Lucy is there and I was aware of what happens before” or something similar - it’s like he was forcing himself to say Lucy - very unatural

also the dr Taylor from the panel saying he couldn’t sleep at night if he had done damage like that to a baby - he looked so nervous and looked like he had tears in his eyes

what is going on!!

it may have been clumsy but in a way isn’t it an example of his complete detachment - which is good I would have thought / not being emotional about it

Same here - I now do some work from home and do a lot of paperwork at home, so always some patient notes

A nurse who can't work from home, taking home hundreds of confidential records and deliberately keeping them - some notes pertaining to the babies she was under suspicion of harming - is different to what you've described, and you know it. She also lied when she said she couldn't destroy the notes.

Of course she worked from home. She texted about writing up her notes after shifts. Nurses don't have offices in the hospital, unlike consultants

She doesn’t sound unbalanced in the least.

When were the panels finding presented to the jury? Source please?

It really isn’t that unusual - and at most it is suggestive of being a bit chaotic and unprofessional, but I really have no idea how this has any relation to murdering babies.

Is there any evidence that murderers are not good at throwing away paperwork or bring home unnecessary paperwork from work?

Is there any evidence that murderers are not good at throwing away paperwork or bring home unnecessary paperwork from work?

Not that I can recall.

Have you ever heard of serial killers keeping 'trophies', which is what she may have done?

That is what they tried to imply - but it is a very silly assertion when the majority of the handover sheets had nothing to do with the babies she was accused of harming.

I really do despair if people on the jury took this as ‘evidence’ of anything. However, when you see how many people think this sort of silliness is evidence, or they believe they can tell if someone is guilty as they didn’t act as they believe you should act in that situation, it is clear why so many miscarriages of justice do happen

Well, four indictment babies were not amongst the paperwork.

Her very first handover sheet was reportedly found in a keepsake box, which does indicate sentimental attachment of an understandable nature.

The rest were stuffed into carrier bags, or bin liners, one of which was in a garage apparently, and five were in a shredder box marked keep, although whether that referred to the contents or the box or the box itself has never been specified.

The "trophy" theory is extremely tenuous in this case, and was never directly floated at trial.

It all seems to be a bit careless for the serial killer trophy trope.

Did you know that some of the documents she took and kept weren’t handover notes and related to at least one other baby she attacked?

Generally when they keep trophies they aren’t stashed with another 230+ things, nor are they missing from some of the kills. It makes no sense at all.

So, on one hand we have a serial killer that chooses random handover sheets as the trophy rather than something from the victims themselves, doesn’t take them for several of the victims, and shoves them in bags under her bed along with a huge pile of other identical notes from other non-related babies so she can’t even easily get them…on the other we have someone breaching DP protocol and taking paperwork home like a lot of other practitioners in every profession, using them for reflection/writing up her notes at home (reflection being required in her line of work), and falling into the bad but somewhat easy habit of keeping them together rather than putting them in confidential waste/burning them…