Lucy letby

[bloomingbonkerz]

Do you think she did it ? Watched the documentary and I’m not sure she should have been convicted

So what do you make of the parents who had complaints after the investigation was deemed complete? Are the deaths of their babies less important? Do they know less? Its tragic for the parents of all the babies who died - they all deserve to know that she has been found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. And there are too many questions about this to be sure of that.

It’s not improbable and was accepted by experts and jury

Doesn’t sound like you paid much attention if the only panel member you can remember is Shoo Lee.

Cashing in?! Are you serious? You do know that they were acting pro bono while Dewi Evans took home a very substantial fee?

Don’t make anything of it - am sticking to
talking about the case and the time scales they investigated

None of the parents thought their children were deliberately harmed before the police told them was an investigation. They don't know anything about the medical causes from the fact of being there.

Of course they do - same as the jury

well you accept what your told don’t you - it isn’t a case for her innocence

your brain updates with new information - you don’t keep saying “but we were told this and we are sticking to it”

So how did she do it undetected?

I wasn’t at the trial but I’m sure it fitted for them to convict

Well that’s exactly what you’re doing

Seems normal you’d be with babies on their own - plenty of opportunity

😅 @EyeLevelStick I'm not in the habit of making things up, I saw it with my very own eyes on the TV today. @CheeseNPickle3 I dont know about liver injuries, so can't comment on that. But it is definitely possible to impair a small baby's breathing by over feeding them, also to inject an air into an IV line to cause harm.

How long do you think it'd take to do it? Why do you think it'd have to be some sort of huge involved process not something she could do quickly when she was alone?

She’d taken confidential medical documents about the babies in the neonatal unit and added different coloured asterisks in her diaries alongside the initials, the handover forms she’d taken and the handwritten notes. So she had some kind of system.

Not the IV line ones, the NG tube ones - so air into their stomach.

There's actually several mechanisms she's supposed to have used (which I think is unusual) Air embolus, air via NG tube, insulin poisoning (via 2 tpn bags, one of which was put up while she wasn't there), overfeeding with milk, throat trauma and injury to liver.

If you were trying to spot a pattern in that, I guess you could say that there isn't one.

FFS, it's not contingent on timing. It's about the mechanism. Think. "Force of a car crash" "impact injury" - no other similar injuries despite other organs being in the same area. Liver is protected by the ribs. No rib injuries reported that I have seen. How do you injure one 5cm organ without doing other damage?

Not at all - I’ve listened to all the arguments on here and I’m not convinced

who on earth wouldn’t accept what the dr tells you the cause of death is not right - of course you wouldn’t

can’t believe you don’t see that

I think someone was asking how she could have done it - like how could she do it unseen

how can we know the medics - the trial dealt with this - the post mortem doesn’t support the needle injury theory to the liver

@CheeseNPickle3 the fuller a very small baby's stomach is the less space there is for them to inflate their lungs. Wouldn't someone trying to cover up multiple murders of such vulnerable victims, use a variety of techniques, to evade detection? The fact is their were multiple options available to her.

Sure, but a system for what? Remembering which babies she'd murdered? Noting events she might be asked about at inquest? Noting incidents for reflection and learning? Noting when she was nurse in charge? Noting when she still needed to complete paperwork? Noting when she had a follow up question? I star things all the time for all sorts of reasons.

This may be the case, but it wouldn't inhibit resuscitation which would include draining air and fluid from the stomach if necessary.

Right night night all 👋

happy debating!

The pathologist who performed the postmortem wasn't given the information about the needle aspiration in the notes the consultant provided, so he wasn't given the opportunity to explore this possibiity.

Good night to you!

Eh?

I didn't follow the trial and accepted she was found guilty but then I read New Yorker article and I think their points were very relevant, especially from statistics point of view the direction of the judge to group selected cases together and to ignore wider picture is very questionable.
I am also wondering what was prosecution answer to the question of her constantly changing "methods" ? E.g. why would she poison a child with insulin when she knew it would come up in the blood test? Why wouldn't she use air embolism all the time since it was so difficult to diagnose?