Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

[SpringTimeIsRingTime]

Panto Dames have been a thing since 1806 when a certain Mr Simmons decided to play Mother Goose as a Witch (how original) rather than as a caring grandmother figure. Nowadays panto dames are mainly played by gay men in drag.

I think it's time for talented actresses to take back elder female roles from the tired tropes played by men since the Victorian era.

Nah, leave things as they are. A man as a panto dame is hilarious IMO.

I am not keen on drag/drag queens, but a panto dame played by a man is often funny.

I think principal boys now are often played by male idols to get more of an audience. A shame imo.

With a few expectations Witches and Fairies are always played by women
Plus the princess
And occasionally there are still "principal boys" played by women (mostly in smaller, am dram pantos ... and the adult panto I saw where one prince was an effeminate male and the other was a woman playing the "butch" half)
Plus plenty of ensemble roles and side kicks
I've also seen Captain Hook played by a woman!

Which is to say, there's no shortage of roles for women in panto

I know I said this on the other thread but I think it's still relevant. :

I agree re the titillation aspect but the role isn't simply someone to be leered at. Entertainers like Vesta Tilley, Ada Reeve or Nellie Farren were widely known as talented performers, not just pin-ups.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principalboy

If it were solely a sleazy role to be leered at then the royal Family, certainly concerned with respectability, wouldn't have let Princess Elizabeth be the principal boy when during the war they put on Cinderella.

Most principal boys ARE played by men now, it changed because they wanted male idols to draw in the crowds.

Cynthia Evro is currently playing all 23 (mostly male) parts in Dracula and played Jesus last year

There have been female Hamlets

Life of Pi tour had both a female and a male actor for the lead role

Shall we complain about them?

Slightly off topic but I have never seen a dame played by a gay man. I didn't realize it was even a thing.

I don't think there's such an issue with principal boys. As I said in pp, there were male gaze issues in Victorian era but it was wider than that.

Operas have breeches roles originally written for castrati which women now do well. Japan has the all-female singing and dancing Takarazuka Revue, which has a huge female fanbase (and at least allows a bit of fairness in a country where Kabuki usually and often Noh theatre exclude women, even though Kabuki was started by a woman...but I digress..) It can be fun, a chance for an actress to have a different sort of part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takarazuka_Revue

Imo panto dames are different because they mock women in a grotesque way. Panto principal boys mock men but not so much, and not in grotesque way.

Baron Hardup
The Council man in Dick Whittington

Any time there's a "king" or "father figure" to the princess in fact (when he hasn't been killed off before the show starts) they will be a humour "doddery old man"

Or Matthew Bourne's Swan Lake (absolutely beautiful btw)

Why don't we? 🤣

Paul o'Grady I think? John Inman, Ian McKellen are others.

Jokes about the dame quite often call out the fact they are a man too

"Oh he'll have a surprise when I get him home"
"I'm coming out of the closet"
Etc

Well Emma Thompson played Miss Trunchball in the film of Matilda, in the stage version it’s a man in drag.

I liked that they gave the part to a woman. Interesting/strong female parts are hard to come by, it seems a shame to give the few there are to men.

Six, Mean Girls, Legally Blonde are all touring right now and are heavily female led casts

I was going to say the same thing!

Pantomime dames are the best bit.

This isn't a universal experience and many theatres are thriving, hosting new shows by diverse talent and highlight diverse talent, new shows are going on tour all the time

Hmm...actresses do get a role as principal boy, at least traditionally, as well as the princess, but I get your point re mums.
I have a lesbian friend who thinks it's a shame the panto principal boy role changed to be played by a man. So it's fair to note that audience members being attracted to the principal boy isn't necessary only a male gaze thing, but I take your point re straight female viewers missing out.

However, most pantos now cast a man as principal boy, often precisely a young pop star/similar to appeal to young women. So generally this does happen.

I myself feel the principal boy tradition equaliser the gender mockery a bit, rather than just having the dame mocking women.

Agree strongly. Why shouldn't a woman play a character like Miss Trunchbull?

That’s musical theatre. I’m talking about drama. In any case less than 9% of musicals are written by women. It’s dire.

Yes. Evita was on last year at the Palladium. And Hadestown is written by a woman and has good female parts.

You must be talking about musicals. When I think of theatre I think drama. Musicals are not my thing .

Oh right. I had never seen one in my local productions maybe it's for bigger names.

The % of musicals written by women is less than 9%. Talk anecdotally all you like but ask women writers and actors if they think they are properly represented on stage and they’ll tell it to your straight.

Yes,,both sexes are. I agree partly re the male gaze thing but I don't think that's a reason to throw the whole thing out with the bathwater.