Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

[SpringTimeIsRingTime]

Panto Dames have been a thing since 1806 when a certain Mr Simmons decided to play Mother Goose as a Witch (how original) rather than as a caring grandmother figure. Nowadays panto dames are mainly played by gay men in drag.

I think it's time for talented actresses to take back elder female roles from the tired tropes played by men since the Victorian era.

Dear Lord!

I do not think the Dame has a part to play in the awful statistics of violence and rape of women. I am very unhappy that you have twisted my words.

In reference to drag in my post, it’s not hard to understand that many drag acts where men dress as massively over sexualised women (I gave a good example) does nothing to change men’s view of women.

You were the one who brought it up. We’re not talking about drag though are we?
Why are you even bringing that into the conversation?

I'm not convinced the OP is being entirely serious.

Is it half term anywhere yet?

You'd be surprised, certain parts of MN is weirdly anti panto, whereas in RL everyone I know loves it and grew up with it!

So? Just because an awards ceremony uses that term to distinguish between 'best actor' and 'best actress' so their trophies aren't overloaded with 'best male actor' or 'best female actor' doesn't mean that in everyday life, female performers should have to accept being referred to by a term they don't like. We've moved on from comedian and comedienne, after all.

The term 'actress' is generally accepted as being outdated in real life, and surely it is up to the individuals in the profession to decide.

The panto dame is a hideous-looking woman - that's already a bad start.

It's played by men for cheap easy laughs hence why the men playing them are far less talented than the top female comedians or actresses who could do a far better interpretation that doesn't involve perpetuating negative stereotypes about older working-class women (there's also a class element since day one for the entertainment of the Victorian middle-classes).

I am an older working-class woman and I find it offensive for men to parody older working-class women like myself for laughs. I think it perpetuates a negative stereotype. Why is that biased? How is that any different from a black person objecting to a white man parodying black men with blackface?
Would you say that black people are "biased" or justified in their objection of a negative stereotype being perpetuated at their expense?

For what it's worth, I feel exactly the same about Brendan O'Carroll playing Mrs Brown. I think it's lazy, unfunny but there is an audience for this type of sexist trope/tripe.

I asked this of @Tankflopbut they’ve chosen not to answer so I’ll ask you too.
What specific misogynistic slurs does the pantomime dame portray? What specific negative stereotypes do they perpetuate?
And as you’ve specifically mentioned social class, what working class stereotypes are they portraying?

Ok

The physical way they portray themselves, costumes always include big fake boobs and as in Les dawson's act, hoisting their sagging boobs with their elbows.

The fact they are often lonely and searching for a husband, man hungry.

Often portrayed as a bit stupid, "it's behind you" where??? Doh!

Or as in the drag artists, nasty bitchy jealous women tropes. Ugly sisters.

These roles were originally played by men because women were not allowed on stage.

My main issue is that the casts are male heavy. A quick google produces this from 2025

Cinderella dandini dame men women

Windsor male male 6 2
Welwyn male male 6 2
Nottingham male male 4 2
Norwich male male 5 2
Bournemth. male male 3 2
Brighton male male 3 2
Edinburgh male male 3 0

The formatting has gone crazy but all the Dame roles and Principal boy roles in the first pantos I found are played by men.

This is problematic for women because there are less jobs

Then the ratio of main parts are 3 to 1 so it's problematic for women.

That's in addition to the way in which men playing the dame portray older women.

Then you get the encroachment of drag artist playing the role of dame but as the female character such as Courtney Act and Craig Revel Horwood.

The physical way they portray themselves, costumes always include big fake boobs and as in Les dawson's act, hoisting their sagging boobs with their elbows.

We’re talking about pantomime dames. Why are you talking about Les Dawson?
Why are boobs problematic? Or a negative stereotype?

The fact they are often lonely and searching for a husband, man hungry.

Man hungry is pushing it a bit 🙄
But why is being single a negative stereotype of an older woman? If you see that as problematic then you need to ask why.

Often portrayed as a bit stupid, "it's behind you" where??? Doh!

You actually don’t understand how a pantomime works do you? 😂😂😂
All the main ‘good’ characters do this anyway so hardly a negative stereotype about older women.

Or as in the drag artists, nasty bitchy jealous women tropes. Ugly sisters.

You literally can’t post without mentioning drag can you? I’ve also never seen a pantomime where the dame was nasty. As for the ugly sisters… that actually their character! lol

These roles were originally played by men because women were not allowed on stage.

And? As character they tend to be written for men, and that’s okay.

My main issue is that the casts are male heavy. A quick google produces this from 2025
Cinderella dandini dame men women
not sure what you’re actually trying to say here but you seem a little obsessed with Cinderella - other pantomimes are available. You might find a better gender balance too but I guess that would go against your narrative though wouldn’t it?

It must have been good. I am pretty certain DH went to see that. He would have been 6 or 7. MIL still talks about it!

What are you on.

Often portrayed as a bit stupid, "it's behind you" where??? Doh!

we’ll have to do it again then, won’t we, wooooo!

Funny story …

We go to a local theatre every Christmas as they host a wonderful theatre company for their annual pantomime. The village primary school always go to watch too so my DS has seen it twice every year since 2021.
Last year there was no ‘handy little bench’ but this time DS came running out of school after the theatre visit shouting ‘the handy little bench is back!!’ . I didn’t even notice it hadn’t featured but DS was obviously fond of it 😂😂

My husband has also been the Dame’s boyfriend 3 years running so that’s becoming an interesting tradition!

It worked for Dawn French.

Just found this article.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/life_style/arts_ents/15712129.elaine-c-smith-sexism-theatre-changing-role-women-pantomime/

No. Time for women with talent to take back the Principal Boy role.

I "heard" them say that as I read it 😁 especially the "woo" bit
I agree with the poster that said I don't think they have ever even been to a pantomime, or if they have they don't understand it.
That's not just the Dame that does that, it's a running gag usually involving most of the cast.

And generally includes a bench & these days often the Ghostbusters theme.

My husband has also been the Dame’s boyfriend 3 years running so that’s becoming an interesting tradition!

we always sit in the circle so that can’t happen but Ds arranged for a shout out that made fun of Dh!

No thanks.
The Principal Boy role was for the leering men in the audience.
That's regressive.

Young girls in the audience expect Prince Charming to be a handsome young man not someone like their mummy in a short tunic and knee-high boots.

And trans women are women. NOT men dressed up as women. If you think trans women are men dressed as women, I think you might be the transphobic one.
We really do need to stop conflating drag with trans. Drag is a theatrical art form, in which men dress as women for comedic effect. The comedy is derived from this reversal.
It is far more transphobic to consider trans women as 'men in drag'.

Do they? You make so many sweeping assumptions about what you think people want.

You're completely ignoring the posts where people say they would like to see something different to you. Why don’t their views matter? Why are you so arrogant that you believe your opinion is the only one that matters?

Haha if it were up to me we’d be hiding at the back! DH and DS have other ideas though 😂