Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

[SpringTimeIsRingTime]

Panto Dames have been a thing since 1806 when a certain Mr Simmons decided to play Mother Goose as a Witch (how original) rather than as a caring grandmother figure. Nowadays panto dames are mainly played by gay men in drag.

I think it's time for talented actresses to take back elder female roles from the tired tropes played by men since the Victorian era.

Nope, leave panto dames alone. Girls tend to play parts such as Peter Pan and Dick Whittington. Love a panto, wokeness can leave them alone

Maybe a suitable role for Olivia Colman?

When will Richard Hammond be appearing as Buttons? That's what I want to know!

What a ridiculous OP.

I'm currently in a Panto and the comedy of the dame is that 'she' is a man. The script doesn't work if it's played by a woman, it's the whole point.

And our dame is a straight man!

Men dressing up as women, regardless of the reason, have always given me the ick and always will. Same as "blackface". Mocking disadvantaged people is not funny

Panto male roles played by women were created for the male gaze - that's not equality - stop pretending it is. That's why the women are all in tights and very short tunics.

How would you retain the essence of a traditional pantomime if you made the changes you’re suggesting?

What do you think about ballet? Men in tight tights.

I don't mind the traditional 'dames' but for the last few years our local panto has also introduced a drag race style character. Really inappropriate for a family show. In the lineup of all the 'stars' of the show on the promotional material there was 1 actual woman and the rest were men or men dressed as women. So from that pov yes it's time for actual women to be given women's parts. Also they were flogging their tickets at half price over Xmas so doesn't appear hugely popular....

It's not ridiculous.
You've been brought up with this norm and find it "normal".
It's not.
And it's not funny.

The script can be written differently with a lot more imagination for a female playing the role.

Panto Dames are based on a tired old misogynistic trope of women.
They allow the audience to laugh at (often older) female figures.

Where are the equivalent older male figures we all get to laugh at in pantos?

There aren't any because panto dames are misogynistic sexist tropes.
Just like the women in Benny Hill sketches.

Heaven forfend! By the OPs logic the only actors in a Shakespeare play should be male. After all, that’s how William wrote the plays!

Your opinions are not universal. Stop telling people what they’re allowed to find funny.

You sound pompous and patronising. .

A large bloke dressed in a pantomime Dame costume is inherently funny. A woman dressed as a pantomime Dame isn't. The whole point of panto is its sheer ludicrousness.

Gender role reversal in comedy has been around since the Mummers plays in the Middle Ages. It is part of our theatrical history and tradition.

You might enjoy ‘Into the Woods’ OP - obviously not a panto for the kiddies but very funny without cross dressing.

pantomine ‘Dames’ are grotesques - I’m not sure if older women actors would want the parts. They’re often played by quite masculine actors - they’re not really that much like drag queens.

I’m curious if anyone had been to one of Julian Clary’s pantos - afaik he doesn’t play the ‘dame’ but instead some sort of fabulously clothed ‘spirit of something’ inventions - not sure how the dynamics of that works?

OP, there are plenty of other theatrical productions you can go to. You can check the cast lists in advance, if you want to make sure that male actors play men and female actors play women.

If you don't like panto, then just don't go to panto. Have you considered that option?

You could just leave panto for all the people who do enjoy it, rather than trying to change it to fit your tastes. Or you could put on a production of your own?

I think you've got that wrong there are plenty of decent female roles in Shakespeare's plays it was just that women weren't allowed to actually act on stage and so they had to be played by young boys.

I have to say that pantomimes are lowest common denominator entertainment and maybe audiences will vote with their feet but perhaps not I guess there's plenty of people who like that kind of stuff.

I can't stand drag either but again seems fairly popular, but then I hate strippers and again a lot of people go to see that male or female.

It’s really not the same as blackface remotely. The history of drag and the history of blackface are not remotely similar.

This.

Oh, and er... avoid the musical Hairspray too.

Not everything has to be high brow.

Three are some excellent examples of pantomimes out there.
Our local village theatre hosts a theatre company every Christmas and their pantomime is absolutely brilliant. It sells out every year with people booking tickets for next year as they leave the theatre.
They have a male actor playing the dame and he always chooses someone to be his boyfriend - usually a dad sat with his family and that’s what makes it funny.

Oh yes, don't go to see Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo either.

I think there is an argument to be had about how generally the 'funny' parts in panto's have always gone to men whilst women were just there to be pretty but tbh in recent years I do think it's gotten better. Saw Doreen Tipton in Wolverhampton and Birmingham, she was fantastic and got to be funny.

Panto dames though? Traditionally played by men. I'm not sure about your statistic that they're 'mostly played by gay men' either.

My cat is livid that nobody has given him the opportunity to play Puss in Boots.

Start a petition OP. I’m sure it will go viral.

Panto season has just finished so I doubt it.

False equivalence and not very flattering for the bard.
In Shakespeare's day women were not allowed act - it was considered on a par with prostitution. Happily that is no longer the case.
What a lazy argument btw - do try harder next time.