Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

[SpringTimeIsRingTime]

Panto Dames have been a thing since 1806 when a certain Mr Simmons decided to play Mother Goose as a Witch (how original) rather than as a caring grandmother figure. Nowadays panto dames are mainly played by gay men in drag.

I think it's time for talented actresses to take back elder female roles from the tired tropes played by men since the Victorian era.

Agree with this, the man who plays the dame every year at my local theatre is hilarious. Everyone knows it's a bloke in a dress and he doesn't try and pretend otherwise. He's married with children and plays serious roles in other productions.

Theatre is in a dire situation and its attitudes towards women and working class people is shocking. Women are massively underrepresented on main stages and interesting female characters are few and far between. Pantomime dames are the last of women’s problems in theatre. If you really care about women start a campaign that women should write women’s stories. Same applies to TV.

Have you actually asked any female musical theatre performers whether they would want to play the dame in panto? Surely they are the ones who would be pushing for it if they thought it was unfair that only men get to play that role.

I also think that perhaps Equity, the Actors' Union might be pursuing it as well, if their female members wanted it.

I used to date an actor who played dames in a few pantos. Believe me he definitely wasn’t gay!!

In what way/ways is theatre in a dire situation? I ask that as someone that has worked in theatre for 30 years.

Fucking hell OP I can’t imagine how exhausting it must be to be so terminally offended!! This type of ludicrous argument is why I cannot take contemporary “feminists” seriously and have refused to describe myself as a feminist for a long long time!

I saw him in Cinderella and no he definitely wasn’t the dame - he was a very catty Dandini who spent a lot of the show throwing shade at the Ugly Sisters, and vice versa.

You might not find it funny but plenty of people do including women. The audience aren't laughing at an older woman character they are laughing at a man in a dress with outlandish costumes. It wouldn't be funny if it was played by a woman.

don't worry, I'm sure plenty of posters disagreeing with OP are feminists
I don't know why the principal boy role is discounted because she wears tights?
Then the principal girl role is played by a woman
And depending on the story there could be other female roles- fairy godmother, Queen in sleeping beauty, etc

Theatre... was invented by men though, at least if you follow the Ancient greek route to modern theatre (the Romans were more reasonable and let woman play minor non speaking roles occasionally).

Pantomime Dames have always been men, the gender role reversal is a part of the history, and goes back far far further than Pantomime itself does. It was absolutely not 'designed for older women'!

I asked this earlier but it was ignored by the OP.

I haven’t been to a panto for ten years or so but even back then, I don’t think I ever saw Prince Charming or whoever played by a woman. I don’t think that tradition is still going at all. That was always played by Darren Day or someone equally cheesy.

I don’t think I did say it was about equality? It’s about the conventions of British pantomime.

Stop pretending you are smart.

As usual with these veiled anti LGBT posts the self-appointed 'experts' don't tell the whole story. Here's an interesting article on the real history of pantomime if anyone is interested https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/the-story-of-pantomime?

Ok, cool.

I’ve seen several productions of Shakespeare plays where traditionally male roles have been played by a woman. I thought it was an interesting new take and way of reinventing well know plays - however, I now realise talented male actors should be reclaiming those parts from women.

I saw him in Cinderella years ago. Played "Dandini", Prince Charming's servant. Outrageously flamboyant, putting his supposed master in the shade.

I can't remember who played the Ugly Sisters, but I've no doubt that OP would not approve.

Edit: Wikipedia foes say that Julian Clary once played the fairy godmother instead.

As a cis hetero older woman who is well able to think for herself, as are my adult DDs this sums it up. The poll results are representative of what we feel.

Seriously? I’d be interested to know what kind of theatre you work in. Audiences are down, revenue is critically low, decades of underfunding by the government in the arts, working class creatives working in theatre is diabolically low (about 8%). Theatres are hanging by a thread. I could go on. I’m genuinely astonished you claim to have worked in theatre for 30 years and don’t know this…

@ErrolTheDragon we go every year and weirdly enough I was just thinking about this as he was the King in 2025 in wonderful costumes and full make up. I’m sure he’s been a more traditional dame at points but I’d have to think back. He was married to Jane MacDonald for 2024 so not then.

i don’t care about dames being played by men but what I hate is interesting roles for women being played by men for laughs. Like Trunchbull or Miss Hannigan.

Or Lady Bracknell… I saw David Suchet’s attempt some years ago, people were saying ‘wasn’t he maahvellous’… honestly no, any number of older women actors would have been vastly better.

Surely the whole idea of the pantomime dame is that everyone knows the actor is a man playing an over the top pastiche version of an older woman.

Even the 5 year olds in the audience can get the joke.

Great idea for a thread! YANBU.

It's interesting it started in Victorian times- ties to wider sexism, maybe?

So is Shakespeare, but rightly, women play the female roles now.

Yes, principal boys are way less common now. Partly because pantos started to cast young male idols as principal boy to draw in crowds.