To say it isn't worth working full time with young kids unless you earn very well?

[Karma1387]

I have done a few posts recently and on a couple its come up frequently how insane it is to give up work/pension etc when having children which made me really think am I being unreasonable and should I try to go back to full time work after DC2 maternity leave.

I went through finances today to look into my partner taking a paycut due to wanting to get him off nights for his health and then looked at how much better/ worse off we would be if I then went and found a full time job.

I was honestly shocked how much worse off we would be with him taking a paycut to come off nights and me finding a full time job and putting the kids into childcare. We would be about £750 short each month. We do have a bit of debt which would mean we were only £250 short but I can't understand where the logic/motivation is to go back to full time work whilst kids are young if you are worse off or break even.

I would need to earn 40k in order to break even. For people who aren't in high earning professions I just can't understand how they afford to work full time and put kids into childcare. Even when the kids hit school age with before and after school care plus school holidays we would only be a little over breaking even if I worked full time!

I understand people talk about pensions but on a 24k salary (assuming you didn't work your way up) the pension at 67 would only be 5k a year. So what is the point really?

AIBU to say it really isn't worth working full time with kids (that require childcare) unless you are earning a very good salary?

I was a high earner when I had DD1 & DD2. But that has its pitfalls too. I worked long hours, DD1 was asleep when I left for work and often asleep when I got home - exH was a SAHD. I took a career break after DD2. It was all just too much to manage … It gave me a chance to have a really good look at my career, become self employed and enjoy a good work life balance.

Agree! My mum worked ft. I am a unieducated, intelligent woman who decided to become a sahm. Having alternatives and deciding that I want to spend a certain time here on earth raising my children ft is being a good role model in my book. Having kids to spend as little of time as possible with them is not. Memento mori and all that.

Just mums?

Again, why does this only apply to mums?

Well I'm a woman and a mum posting on mumsnet so I can only speak for myself.

Yet according to the government, only the super wealthy can afford independent school 🤷‍♂️

to put that in prospective I pay less than that per month for independent school fees for my youngest (prep school), that's including the inflation from VAT. Imagine if the government eye up nursery as a potential for VAT. Five years ago, when I had all
3 children attending the independent prep school, our monthly fee was comparable to the gross fee you are paying for one child!

I realise the staff to children ratio does reduce as they get older and this comparison was pre VAT, with multi child discount and one child having a 20% scholarship. Even so, I don't understand why the private nursery fees are so expensive.

We found it more affordable and more convenient to employ a nanny upon having a third child - perhaps a part time nanny plus the school nursery could be an option.

Alternatively look at the prep school's with nursery's, they offer the wrap around care enabling parents to actually work which is glaringly missing from the state schools.

I would add that my youngest is moving to state school at the end of this academic year, no more fees which will be most welcome.

It does get easier but is soul destroying and really tough for a few years.

I agree and also think it’s much nicer for children to have mum at home to do the school runs, make nice meals, homework etc and not have to pay someone else to do all this.

And dad? Or is he ok to be at work?

Because when a dad becomes a sahd and turns up at rhyme time, society gives him a medal and says he is an amazing human and what a great role model he is. Its mainly mums who get told they arent a role model if they stay home so its typical to respond that a mum can be a role model doing this too.

My husband does the cooking.

That’s hilarious. In our house, dad takes the school phone calls, he’s primary care giver, he does all the drop offs and pick ups.
My husband cooks for us 1/2 the days (he would do more if he finished work sooner) and he does all homework except reading (which I do)
I either cannot do all that because I am out at work and seeing patients, or because I am too sick and therefore asleep.
But why shouldn’t Dad take these responsibilities? DH works from home, I might not even have any signal…

Completely unrelated to my post but your experience with independent schools would be appreciated.

You said your youngest is moving to state school next academic year. Is that to go onto secondary? Did you do this with your other children? We have a nice little independent that is actually reasonably priced even with the VAT. I'd love to consider it as the state primarys near us arent great.

Was the transition from private - state difficult for them?

Childminder might be easier for you OP compared to nursery? They can be a lot more flexible on hours (early and lates) and ours charged only for hours worked, not all year round like a nursery regardless of holidays etc. Also no worries about closing for snow etc.
It worked out a lot better for us, as the childminder did all the school runs and wraparound for the older one as well as taking care of the younger one, so we only had one drop off. Plus nicer for the kids to be in a small group.

This is what patriarchal society looks like. Women accepting that their role is to be at home rather than competing with men for the top jobs. Proper state funding for childcare and equal parental leave, flexible working for men as well as women and equal pay for equal work, women back to work programmes... that's what we should all be campaigning for. Instead we accept we can't afford to work.

I am pro-choice by the way. Staying at home with kids is no less valid a choice. I just think being forced to because of lack of all the above is unfair and damaging to women and to society as a whole.

we Only have 1 child and it’s definitely worth working full time, even if I paid all the childcare I still clear £2k a month. we both do compressed hours to reduce nursery days. If you’re not married; you have zero financial protection. Even married; it’s so high risk to step out of work; especially at the moment wher there’s so few jobs:

That’s a (sexist) cop out.

raising my children ft is being a good role model in my book. Having kids to spend as little of time as possible with them is not.

should apply equally to both parents.

How are you going to afford private school if you can’t afford nursery?!

Same here. It’s amazing because his penis doesn’t get in the way of any of that.

Thats a bit of a red herring re the 23%. That is how much is costs the NHS to find the pensions. However it is the best pension scheme you'll probably get. I have found working for the NHS (corporate not clinical) the best thing alongside raising a family due to flexibility. Even admin work can be very varied as there are so many different areas to work in. My son is an apprentice in a hospital pharmacy (straight from school but the other apprentices are anything up to late 50s), he is being paid to train and the progression is endless. 27 days leave, decent pension also. He only had GCSEs and no real work experience.

@Karma1387 I actually don't think I would be 100% set on finding a full time job in your position unless something came up that was an opportunity too good to pass up and would have amazing future prospects. Its all very well people saying about salary increasing in future but you could literally wait 2/3 years when the end of nursery fees wont be far off and then look. It you coild pick up more shifts as your DH will be home in the evenings perhaps you could start putting into a private pension. You are not giving up a job/career as you have already done that anyway.

The private school near us is about the same cost as nursery. We have family willing to contribute to private primary if we go down that route if we can't move to a better area quick enough for DS starts school.

Once both kids are at school I can look at full time work plus our debt will be gone which will massively help.

Is the £500-750 per month debt you’d be in with no other changes to spending and lifestyle? Or are you down to the last penny at the moment?

Ultimately, you have a very specific set of circumstances (both in low paid work in combo with unsociable hours, it seemingly only you who can make a major change, neither of you having transferable skills in your opinion). Nobody in those circumstances could manage two kids and staying in work, but most people don’t have two kids in those circumstances.

This sounds like a crazy idea TBH. Infant school will be fine regardless of area, would be an absolutely crazy commitment on low wages even with family help. The additional costs of private are a fair bit also.

The difference with private school and nursery is that nursery is for a really short time, private up to 16-18 and it gets so expensive.

Mine went to a relatively cheap private school but still over £1000 a month each, we had no mortgage by that point so it basically replaced that, we were earning low 6 figures between us so not high high earners but never could have afforded mortgage and school for 2 if we had wanted to have some sort of quality of life.

Private school was ok, my youngest has SEN so it was beneficial to him, it also helped both of them in non educational ways but I wouldn't be 100% set on it if I had ny time again.

Whatever.

Make this a feminist choice if you will but more women than you think would rather be looking after their own children. It disrupts the modern feminist narrative but some of us feel modern feminism is complete bullshit that’s left us doing everything instead of separation of duties in the family.

A lot of us feel completely torn in a way that dads don’t. For all the feminism in the world, some of us (and I’ve been shocked by myself who had a thriving career) would rather be with our kids in the early years.

Do you think every woman that goes part time after kids was forced by their husbands? Seems unlikely. I’ve had so many female friends cry the first few months of returning to work because they despise it.

Including myself who is taking a few years out now my 2nd is coming. I’m not spending half the household funds on a nursery and I’m utterly miserable leaving my kid (soon to be two) in childcare.

I work in a job that’s allowed me a career break before anyone starts about earning potential.