Brother sold mum's wedding ring

[goudacheese]

My mum in her late 80s mentioned to me last week that gold prices are high. I didn't think much of it and then I have just found out from her that my brother took her to the local jewellers at the weekend and sold her wedding ring plus another couple of gold items pocketing himself over a grand.
Mum has justified doing this by saying that the ring was too big and might be stollen by carers.
Im pretty certain the ring is bequeathed to me in her will and although I haven't given it much thought I always imagined it would be a keepsake. My brother got my late dad's jewellery when he died.
I just feel I should have been included in any plans so we could have discussed it. I appreciate its mum's ring to do as she wishes but I think my brother could have put the brakes on and spoken to me first.

Is it likely that your mum was interested in/knew about gold prices?

Even if so that doesn't mean that things have to be sold to prevent them being stolen by carers!

He needs to be reported to the OPG and removed from POA. As she ages, he will step up this financial abuse.

Yup!

I would bet anything your brother has been repeating the story and getting into her head about the rings getting stolen in a care home,and it's put the frighteners up her. IE manipulated her 😞

Why did she give the money to him though?

Whilst I agree he's a scumbag and it's financial abuse this has nothing to do with a POA. That's when some makes financial/health and/or property decisions for you when you are no longer able to. If she is able to make decisions but has been taken advantage of that's different. You would have to be able prove financial abuse to the OPG as well to get him removed.

It's the equivalent of a thief taking you to the ATM to steal your money.

I'm pretty sure other money has been going to my brother as he recently got an expensive work van and my nephew said mum had given him 10k.

As you have got POA, why don't you know for sure?
Can you not get all the bank statements and get to the truth?
You need to get a grip and get on top of things.

Was he pressurising her? What did he need the money for - drugs? gambling?

@goudacheese, talk this over with Hourglass by visiting their website or by calling them on 0808 808 8141.

Goudacheese
Your brother took advantage of your mother whilst thinking somehow you'd never find out and a carer would get the blame
Am willing to bet he's tried and got away with much more other stuff but it'll be your word against his and a mother who may not totally remember what she's accumulated over the years
When he got your dads stuff did he offer you any money?
Somehow I doubt it and he was your dad too
It may be an idea depending on what mum has left to buy one of those safes and keeping stuff in there with a list of items plus date safe was put together for reference
And also to put it where he'll not find it?
Know someone who's kept theirs under floorboards elsewhere
I can imagine him going to mothers when you're not there and appraising everything
Don't let him take advantage of mum and assume your stupidity
Also
Is there a will?
If he's selling things it may get mucky as anything left which may not be much means he'll have had more than you'll get
And what if mum goes into a nursing home?
Was some of the jewellery to help with costs alongside property owned?
Brother could still pull a fast one there.....

Once a PoA is registered and activated it’s live. It can be used even if the donor has mental capacity.

Many elderly people have capacity to make some financial decisions and not others. They may need help for example with online banking and online shopping but be competent to make a decision about a haircut.

Once PoA is activated it doesn’t make any difference whether you’re specifically using it for one activity or another, you have that role and you have to abide by the rules across the donor’s finances.

Both OP and DB should be producing regular accounts recording where DM’s money is going particularly if any of it is going to them.

The other aspect is whether it’s jointly or jointly and severally. If the latter they can make decisions alone; if the former - both would have to make decisions unanimously together. Ie he would have to have got agreement with OP as well as DM for money for a van.

https://www.wearehourglass.org/financial-abuse

The other aspect is whether it’s jointly or jointly and severally. If the latter they can make decisions alone; if the former - both would have to make decisions unanimously together.

Severally still doesn't mean that it can be abused though & if Op thinks this is happening she should look into it or have it looked into.

We had jointly & severally & it was mainly because we were both quite far from the parent so keep asking about every thing could have been too time consuming.

But there was transparency between us!

I'm pretty sure other money has been going to my brother as he recently got an expensive work van and my nephew said mum had given him 10k.

I mean under what guise would she just give him 10k?

Could this not be depravation of assets?

Well, the harsh fact is, your brother's a thief.

Its tricky as your mums wedding ring is hers to do with as she pleases .
I understand your upset in that you thought your mums ring bequeathed in the will to you.
The "it might be stolen,its too big ,price of gold" reasons dont stack up unless your mum wanted to sell it otherwise she would have just asked you or someone else to secure it in a safe place.
What does seem strange is your brother pocketing the proceeds.
Have you asked your mum why she chose to give him the money from the sale ?

If your brother shares LPA for your mum he is in direct breach of the rules. It’s coercion. Every decision you and your brother make as her attorneys must be in her best interests and her decisions mustn’t be influenced to the advantage of either of you.

My strong advice is to contact the office of the public guardian, who oversee LPAs and report suspected abuse. They will investigate and if necessary dissolve the current LPA and appoint an independent guardian. This will protect your mum’s interests and your own, given your suspicions about her will. I would mention those suspicions when you contact the OPG and ask advice for the best way forward into checking there isn’t abuse there too.

OP you should also be aware that if she’s in her late eighties, should she need full time care at any point, the local authority will consider the money she is giving away as deprivation of assets, and will assess her care costs as though she still had those assets. You really need to get her to try to understand this - if and when the time comes for care, she won’t be able to explain it away because LA’s have very strict rules and can investigate as far back as they need to to prove deprivation of assets. As her attorneys you and your brother should be protecting her interests and you’re both responsible - him for exploiting her and you for allowing it.

I sold my deceased mums wedding ring and grandmas wedding ring and some of her gold jewellery last weekend and got nearly £2k for it. It’s been sat in a box unlooked at for nearly ten years. I gave my young adult sons a portion of it to offset any guilt.
I see no harm at all in selling the ring if it’s what your DM wanted, but the money is hers.

that's difficult to say without more knowledge. Financial POA doesn't kick in unless the donor says it does or unless they lose capacity. Not saying its not a shit thing to have done but he may not be abusing the POA.

The Office of the Public Guardian recommend and advise that LPA’s be activated as soon as they are registered, as waiting until the donor has lost capacity can present its own problems. If the OP and her brother have followed this advice and activated it for immediate use then he’s abusing his position and OP is culpable too because she has her suspicions and isn’t acting on them. If I were OP I’d be checking ASAP to see if it’s activated and if so report the abuse to the OPG so they can investigate.

It has everything to do with the LPA. The OPG recommend activating the LPA for use as soon as it’s registered, to avoid problems once the donor has lost capacity. It may well have been activated, and if so, then both OP and her brother are in breach of it. Him for his actions, and her for not reporting her suspicions to the OPG to protect her mum’s interests.

Whether jointly or severally abuse is abuse. But I get your point - if jointly then why wasn’t OP involved in the visit to the jewellers and aware of the money her mum was giving away.

He sold her wedding ring and kept the money? WTAF! That’s not normal behaviour. He sounds like he’s using her.

Sadly I can see the same happening with my brother and mum 😔

Okay so your title is misleading. Your mum sold her wedding ring and gave the money to your brother. You don't suspect financial abuse, so basically this isn't about safeguarding and protecting your mum but about her preferential treatment of your brother and the fact that he gets more. I think your mum needs someone who is looking out for her interests.