Uncompromising holiday disagreement

[MalePoster]

I would like some advice and opinions please, either way - I understand this is generally a place for women to post but I’m struggling to find somewhere that men can ask for similar advice.

Some context and background - I have been with my wife for 15 years, married for nearly 9. We have 3 children, 6 yo, 3 yo and 9 months. For as long as I can remember I have covered all of our bills and outgoings (at least since we started having children) and any income my wife has had over that period has been seen as disposable income, paying for holidays etc.. she is self employed so unfortunately this decreases a little when she is on maternity, such as in the past 9 months.. luckily I have been in position financially to be able to provide a decent lifestyle for us as a family, and I do not see being the breadwinner or the sole earner as a problem, however I do see very little gratitude to this fact from my wife as any time I mention money she thinks I’m holding it against her that I am the sole provider financially. I feel like in our lives, I do not make many demands as a husband, and I’m always more than happy to go on the holidays my wife wants and do activities that she wants us to do. She has been keen on buying a campervan for quite a few years and I’ve even come round to the idea and said I would put my Dads inheritance towards buying the campervan (Dad sadly passed last year).

I have recently booked a luxurious 12 day holiday for us as a family to go Dubai. My wife has been keen on going away for a while and I was just trying to time it right with school and work etc, so booked quite last minute. She had said Dubai would be good, and picked a nice resort hotel after we looked together, which I agreed would be a nice break for us as a family and hence why I booked it.

My personal hobby in life is golf, I play to a decent level and like playing nice courses when I can, without it being too unreasonable and inconsiderate to our family life.

I had mentioned a few times that if we went back to Dubai (went 4 years ago), I would like to play golf once during our trip.. this was usually met with the “we’ll see” “depends on timing” etc, like I am asking for permission. Well after I had booked I said that I would quite like to play golf, and it just so happened that our trip overlaps by 4 days with one of our close friend couples (with kids too) from home (I knew we were going to overlap before I booked but coincidence that they happened to be going at similar time).

I have made the suggestion to my wife that on one of the afternoons that we overlap with our friends, me and the other bloke go and play golf, leaving the wives and children all together somewhere to enjoy each others company etc.. well this has been met with a firm no from my wife, with absolutely no compromise or consideration towards my request, which has actually really annoyed me. She has made it clear that she wants the whole 12 day holiday to be family time together and thinks it’s unreasonable for me to go and play golf with my friend on one afternoon, even if it means she gets to spend time with her friend (who was one of her bridesmaids so a pretty close friend).

I have said that I’m more than happy for her to go and do something for her in return, like a spa morning or similar, but she says she doesn’t want to do that and just wants to spend the whole time as a family. Whilst I fully appreciate that, I do not think it makes me a bad person for wanting to do something for me on our holiday, especially considering all of the background to our relationship that I presented above.

What should I do? I really don’t want to back down for the principle of not being in a controlling relationship, and because I really do not think my request is unreasonable or inconsiderate to her or our children when considering the whole situation/scenario at play.

Thanks in advance

Golf is such a shite hobby anyway - the minimum of exercise in the maximum amount of time and space played by the most tedious men alive. It's environmentally a disaster in the UK - as for a golf course in a desert...

@MalePoster you've got bigger issues in your relationship than this holiday. If you're not careful, you are going to ruin your relationship. You're already ruining your family holidays. You need to sort out your priorities.

I wouldn't ask your wife to carry your clubs at the airport!

Your posts make you sound like an arse.

This is a family holiday not a golf holiday.

Once you take into account employment taxes etc - a decent 50 hour a week nanny in the south east is costing more like 75-80k a year. There are 168 hours in a week - if the kids are all sleeping through for 11 hours a night (probably not with such a young one) that’s still 91 hours a week to cover, and that doesn’t include things like holiday entitlement etc plus most nannies wouldn’t want to manage three of that age by themselves. So if OP was paying someone for this all it would cost him about 150k of post tax income - instead he has a wife who does it for “free” and earns her own 20k contribution to family life. Unless she has an incredibly expensive lifestyle my guess is he’s getting a good deal.

As a 62 year old wife, mum and grandma and married for 42 years I’m struggling to understand younger generations ideas of what marriage/partnerships should be like particularly finance. When I married both my husband and I worked full time shift work. We opened a joint bank account and our salaries were paid into this account. It didn’t matter who earned what etc, income was pooled and bills/outgoings made from the account. I didn’t work when I had our two children but went back to work as soon as I could (only 6 weeks after having our second child I was back on full time night shifts). We’ve both worked hard over the years and retired, early, so we could enjoy our latter years and enjoy spending time, and money, on our children and grandchildren. Never once did we compare who earned more (for a few years I earned more than my husband). Any large purchases are made jointly, holidays decided on together etc. My 2 children are both married with 4 children each. They both pool incomes and share child care responsibilities.

Maybe your wife doesn't like the other couple, and an afternoon with the wife and her kids could be your wife's idea of hell on earth!
I'd be glad to get rid of you for the afternoon and relax on my own

Plenty of women say they are the breadwinner on here 😂 literally just read a post.

I love my children, completely. I took time out of work to be a sahm with them. What you describe is so boring. A whole holiday, only the five of you together all the time?

Yes yabu

Good question re girls and golf.
Unless the boy is the eldest

The Dubai trip was never planned as a golf trip - it was always a family holiday, that OP wants to spend half a day playing golf.
Last year he wanted to go on a golf holiday for a week with his fellow golfers. Wife said no, so they turned it into a group holiday during which the guys played 3 lots of golf.

Are you on something?

Agree 100%

I don't think either of you are being unreasonable, but the way you've gone about it is a bit unreasonable. You really aren't giving her any choice in the matter, she'll go and meet up with the other wife with the kids while you golf. You haven't thought through how this will work practically for her (it won't, as she's said). I don't think it's just a case of her huffing and saying "no you can't golf just because I said so", I feel like family holidays are generally there to get away from your every day life and spend time together, my husband's hobby is gaming and I've got to be honest, if he told me he was going off to a gaming lounge for the afternoon while we were on holiday I really wouldn't be very happy about it.

I agree with this. My husband is a keen cyclist. We have 4 children and he often on holiday hires a bike and does a whole day cycle. I don't mind at all and don't really care about doing something in return but I might go for a solo shop browse or something 😁

Some thoughts:

1. I don't think the op is getting a harsh time here or that there are double standards at play. Posts have been fairly evenly divided coming down on either side

2. I think the op is very selfish and it was very manipulative to come on here and start a thread - presumably to bully his wife into submitting

3. the op has little self awareness and prioritises his own desires. So many men think their lives should continue as before once they have children

4. the troll hunting on here is something else digging up purportedly old posts go expose private thoughts the wife had about her marriage is unacceptable and for all we know could expose her to danger. Do better.

Play golf. It's a one time opportunity.

DW sounds like my mum. Nobody was allowed to do anything unless it involved everyone. Meaning 5 out of 6 people were usually miserable making the actual person who wanted to do the thing also miserable. Nobody could have their own hobbies/interests etc without feeling guilty.

In the end, we stopped doing anything as a family. This amongst a multitude of other things resulted in my dad leaving the day the youngest child moved out and started their first job. And my mother was surprised.

None of the 4 children were.

Go and play golf. Plan a day for you and the children and let DW know that the day is hers for herself. If she wants to join your planned day, let her know she's more than welcome or she can do her own thing and have me time

I just read her older post that you linked - really quite shocking. And she went on to have two more children after that post.
I wonder if the husband has read that one?
I have to say that post explained a lot about how I felt reading the husband's first post - didn't sound like a marriage full of warmth and love...

Possibly your DW thinks there is a possibility that one afternoons golf could easily turn into 12. She wouldn’t want to be the spoilsport wife if the other wife has no objection to the guys playing golf the whole holiday. She must have some inkling that there is at least a chance this may happen. Or even … she doesn’t want to get ‘stuck’ with company for the whole holiday, just wants to have you to herself. Take it as a compliment. A tip…spontaneously take the children off for a walk, swim etc and leave your wife child free for a couple of hours to relax.

he has a gambling problem which has resulted in trust issues and he can have a bit of a temper with me at times too.

And yet someone thought it was appropriate to link the two threads

For Christ's sake people should know better

Sorry, I think I’ve mistyped or misunderstood something. My understanding is that he’s booked Dubai as a family holiday and that’s what he’s told DW but he’s known that his friend is out there at the same time so he’s planned to hijack the family holiday with golf. He knows that if he told his DW this prior to booking she’d have said can we go to the canaries instead pls?
either in his thread or on hers outside about him chatting with the friend about playing golf in Dubai prior to booking.

He's said he would like to have half a day of the 12 day holiday playing golf...
Really doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Then I read the wife's thread from 2021, where she asks AIBU to have another baby with the husband she has decided she definitely wants to leave (after thinking about it for several years). Because she always wanted 3 or 4 children, definitely doesn't want an only, and doesn't want a big age gap.

That's why this marriage appears very transactional and lacking in love - because it is.

Check his wife’s previous posts. He’s been prioritising golf/gambling for years.

I think id be fine with one afternoon of golf. She can have one back to do something away from the kids

is she generally quite controlling?

1. I think you should both take your argument off Mumsnet and check into couples counselling. @MalePoster @DisneyBaby
2. At a superficial level, as far as one can judge from details posted, your (both of you) lives aren't so bad - apparently there's enough money to go round - obviously marital happiness isn't all about money, but anxiety and arguments about paying the bills and/or the need to work extended hours/additional jobs to keep on top of the mortgage piles on the stress. With OP working from home and able to contribute to school runs etc that takes a lot of pressure off the other party when she goes back to work. Apart from golf it sounds like you have a reasonable division of labour. I'm assuming an absence of serious abuse etc.
3. Many Mumsnetters are very quick with the LTB (although I haven't noticed much of that on this particular thread to be fair). Anyway it's worth considering what life would look like if you don't (both of you) work to save your marriage. A friend likes to wryly remark "same problems, different people" when couples divorce and quickly remarry. The rubbish still needs putting out, the loo still needs cleaning and someone needs to remember to buy more loo roll, the children still need dropping off to school and caring for when they are sick and unable to go to school. A new partner may be just as resistant to the prospect of being a golf widow. And there may be additional problems of step children and their needs. There's just less money to cushion it all because what went into one household is now going into two.
4. Except in very toxic/abusive situations divorce is never going to be the best outcome. Children don't like shuffling between homes. They don't like the arrival of new partners into their homes and their lives. They hate being made to feel they need to show loyalty to one party/be disloyal to the other. 50/50 means one week is full on, one week is very quiet and either parent (but especially mothers from my personal observation) really suffer missing their children for a whole week. The full on week means no help with school runs or afterschool time. Run out of milk or whatever? Nipping to the corner shop involves a major expedition to trail three children with you and all that involves, with putting shoes and coats on and strapping into the car etc. No bed time help. If children all in bed at a reasonable time, no one to chat to for the rest of the evening which can be very lonely. No one to share simple pleasures of a day out or a walk in the country and picnic with. Endless discussions about Christmas/birthday arrangements.
5. Suddenly there isn't as much money to go around as previously, what with legal bills and divvying things up two ways.
6. If for some reason such as work either party wants to move a distance away there are obvious access problems where within marriage a move might have been entirely welcome for both parties. It's not the freedom ticket some people might think unless the freedom seeker just buggers off and dumps it all on the other. Which is always a very sad situation for abandoned children.

In short - is it worth losing what you have for golf?

Really, both of you take a step back, look at some of the good advice here and think about priorities.

As someone with now grown up children I can say those years fly by in retrospect. I really celebrated the end of school and all that involved, what bliss to no longer be tied to the school calendar. Yet I look back and think where did that all go? The great thing is to have somehow raised two children with a great work ethic, and sensible enough not to have got into drugs/drink or other problems that many young people struggle with. I count myself very lucky not to have any substantial worries related to either child. Possibly being raised within a secure family unit contributed to that?