What happens when everyone needs ‘support’ and no one is left to give it?

[HereBeFuckery]

Fair warning: I may well be BU.

The last five threads I have opened have contained variations on the phrase ‘I need support to/with/for’ or ‘there isn’t enough support for parents/families etc’

I genuinely feel that there is an epidemic of ‘needing support’. If everyone needs support, who is going to be left to actually give that support? It can’t be endless! If every child needs personalised support in school, and every adult needs support in the workplace, we are, surely, just marking time until everything implodes. Can no one just cope any more?

Lots of the volunteering that was common place has fallen away. Volunteering numbers massively down. So informal support like toddler groups, church luncheon clubs don’t exist now.
It’s not entirely down to more women working/higher retirement age. There’s a definite shift in attitude in last few years.
I volunteer with girl guiding. I was a member as a child and my dd was and I give my time as I can see how much the girls benefit. I admin all the age groups and there’s a huge difference in attitude from parents of younger ones - very demanding, calling us staff, not willing to help out even once a year. There was definitely more of a if we want this community group attitude we all need to help out attitude and understanding it was a volunteer run group in past.

@Hiphipholiday I did more volunteering when I was working full-time

There is still a lot of it round here with church groups

But I wouldn't really want to do it again. The sense of being taken for granted is quite overwhelming. Also, I felt like volunteers' responsibilities increased and sometimes people who are working for pay at that place see volunteers as a bit of a dumping ground.

slightly separate, because I'm trying to be rational about it, I did say during lockdown that I didn't want to volunteer again - because it gave me a window into what some people are like. And then I wondered why I was helping them.

I do see your point. The problem is that when women like me (late 40s, early 50s) hear “It takes a village”, they often don’t think “Oooooh excellent! A village to help support me!”. They (or I) hear “WHY ARE YOU NOT BEING THE VILLAGE?!? WHY ARE YOU NOT HELPING EVERYONE MORE?”

I might be wrong but in my opinion the definition of SEN in England at school is currently too wide and simply includes all children with just any kind of small difficulty, immaturity or any kind of difference, all straight from Reception/Y1 when they find it really hard with transitioning from play-based learning to work at their desk, writing stories, when they can't even form letters nicely or spell properly yet. Many children resist this, some children cry, some refuse work, because they want to play. But playtime is banned indoors in Y1. So they put such children on SEN monitoring. Parents are crazy worried, thinking 'is my child disabled'? But then they find out that OK, if they are put on SEN register, we can get a diagnosis of something, then we can apply for a disability benefit, the kid will get more time on exams in the future, and a maybe a life-long support?
The system is enabling this at the moment and it's absolutely crazy.

This is so true

When i was little "the village" was the lady in the corner shop that helped me learn please and thank you, the chap on the bus that said Good morning, the neighbour that shushed me if I was being too loud in the garden. These people taught me how to be a good member of "the village"
I grew up respecting adults, and knew who to go to for help if needed. Children were part of society itself and people looked out for them.

Now you can be screamed at for even talking to someone's child. Or suggest that maybe they should wait their turn etc.
There is no village and sorry, you are on your own.

That isn't how it works though. A child doesn't even need a diagnosis to be eligible for DLA for a start.

Volunteering is interesting in this context. I've done a lot of volunteering, some of it has been very rewarding and a two way process whereby I've given and gained something in return.

Other volunteering on the other hand (I'm thinking of a recent experience in particular) has been extremely unrewarding. Where I've been treated quite badly and it's been assumed I'd do all sorts of things that I didn't agree to at first, with an incredibly entitled attitude and breathtaking lack of consideration. So I'll be getting out of that one as soon as I'm able to.

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This sums it up so well for me. The sort of adjustments that junior staff and students on placement with us ask for all seem to be saying they can't do tasks that are a fairly important aspect of the job. It's as if sitting say an English Literature exam they are not just saying I need extra time or someone to scribe or to produce my answers using some sort of software, it's I won't be reading the set text so you can't ask me about it, but I want to be given a pass mark that reflects my own understanding of how well I have performed.

@newornotnew "Communities used to be comprised of people who knew each other and would support each other"

I keep seeing this on Mumsnet but quite frankly it's a bit of rose tinted spectacles and urban myth combined. I'm nearly 70 and have never known this blissful community where everyone looks after other people's kids or gives them their last lump of coal. Things have always been pretty much the same. In fact, life was a bloody sight tougher years ago.

I would think that posts on an online forum overrepresent the issue as people who are feeling distressed or anxious are maybe more likely to use online forums...?

@Caterpillar1 I can tell you’re not writing this as a parent of a SEN child or as someone who works in schools.

My child is on the SEN register and has a diagnosis but I don’t receive any disability benefit for them.

I had a job once that involved being sat a computer all day using a particular piece of software. The text was too small and difficult for me to read and the sizing couldn't easily be changed because then other things didn't fit on the screen. They kept saying 'we can support you with this need' 'we'll support you with the need' blar, blar, blar they never did and I left because I couldn't do the job because I couldn't read the text easily. They could have just brought a bigger screen but never did. Even when I handed in my notice because of it they were still saying 'we would have supported you with that' - yes but you didn't, you just kept saying you would.
Sorry, just good opportunity for a moan.

Both of those already happen.

Older people provide a lot of support to other older people. Those 3 old ladies chatting over a coffee? They are providing social and emotional support to one another. There are loads of older people doing shopping, running errands, holding keys etc for other older people. I volunteer with a community transport scheme - most of our volunteer drivers are pensioners. A significant portion of the care for frail elderly and those with dementia is provided by their spouse, often at great cost to their own health and well-being.

And those who have wealth typically do use it to access support. They pay to install stairlifts and make other adaptations to their homes. They pay for carers, day centres and personal alarm services. If they need residential care and have more than a relatively modest amount of savings, they pay for that.

This is also my experience. Volunteering and working in the community made me far more cynical. I stopped donating to some of the charities that I previously supported too.

I know some people are unable to, but for the rest of us I find it sad that the internet isn't put to better use (ironic, I know whilst I'm wasting time on here). We seem to be losing the ability to creatively solve problems, which doesn't make sense when information has never been so easy to access. Sometimes it just feels like everyone would rather bitch and moan than help themselves.

@LadyMacbethWasFierce I'm so terribly sorry for your loss, how awful.

I’ve recently name-changed but have been here for years..
Over and over again on this thread there are the pardon my language - FUCKWITS - who repeatedly insist that you should just look after your own (that is, spouse/partner and offspring) and get on with it because SEN this and SEN that.

Support, as per the OP, and multiple responders, seems to sometimes mean “support in work”, sometimes “support for families “, sometimes “supporting those with mental health problems at x or y time” but isn’t defined and yet a majority refer to “SEN” needs (which is an educational term rather than life more widely intended)..

From my experience, and I cannot extrapolate beyond a great deal, I would have liked support when I had PTSD from an assault- but I acknowledge I also probably wouldn’t have been able to take much. I took (and paid for) antidepressants and counselling and EMDR, (paid for by me despite not having a job). I didn’t have a job because I have a severely disabled child (physically such that she can’t walk, stand, sit up, eat, drink reliably, speak, and is possibly intellectually disabled and possibly autistic).

What support for me would have looked like would have been having someone to go for a walk or a beer with every once in a while.

As my “SEND” child ages I’d like a few times a year to have someone care for her overnight so I could go to the cinema or decompress - I have a husband (less said about that..) or anything to break the sheer monotony of doing the same things over and over and over and over again. A few times a year.

But those of you out of compassion and paying more taxes.. don’t worry because it doesn’t fucking happen!! There is money spent on her special school of course but then we can’t have children like her disrupting regular children’s classes, can we?

I’ll be resilient until the day I die or she does and when both happens no-one will really notice and no-one will pay less taxes.

The strain of actually doing a small act of kindness must be so enormous that no-one who thinks everyone should “just get on with it” had better be willing to apply the precise same view and values if they have a stroke or some other debilitating condition.

If or when that unthinkable happens I hope they won’t try claiming disability benefits or OT assistance or hope to see a friend visit once in a while. I hope they can still believe children don’t sometimes need extra help or people have depression (the “new” depression) and as your leg isn’t hanging off, you won’t need medication or assistance eating or drinking or standing…

@Mingspingpongball and @LadyMacbethWasFierce, these posts, talking about resilience and self reliance don't apply to people like you.

YOU are the people who should be able to rely on support because your experience is beyond what a person can cope with alone.

The exasperation expressed here by many posters is not in any way directed towards you, but those whose lives are privileged but somehow seem to associate their emotions to trauma.

But back in the day, far more disabled children were cared for by the state than by their own parents! They used to get shipped off to institutions!

It may not have been nice for the children, but it did mean less mothers sacrificing their entire lives caring for a profoundly disabled child on their own with little to no support.

@ginasevern my mum is 87

From when I was a baby, my parents belonged to a babysitting circle in their block of flats so people could take it in turns going to the pub or whatever

In two different areas, my parents have always helped in the local community and they know far more people than I ever will. I was discussing this with another 40 something who said the same about her folks. If a neighbour wanted to come round for a cup of tea at 8 pm, they were always welcomed, no matter any issues with tiredness or whatever. If I was watching TV, then I was expected to go and say hello or even hang out with them. It was really nice.

One of mum's elderly neighbours get cross with me if I phone up and suggest popping in. She says "for heaven sake, just ring the doorbell! What is wrong with your generation?" 😂 because she really misses people ringing the doorbell and popping in for tea. She's 89.

So I very much grew up expecting to help in the community. In my 20s, I worked stupid hours, but I had a neighbour in her 60s who was having cancer treatment and I used to help her with shopping and prescriptions and the other other neighbours helped out too.

Sometimes I just used to hang out with her when she needed company. She was a really lovely lady. I still think of her very often.

When my friends started having children, I helped out a lot, but they also had access to ... I don't know what to call them... contacts from mother and baby type groups I guess?

I've definitely been plugged into that "community", and as an adult I lived in five different boroughs in London and community was definitely alive and well!

It's only really post lockdown that I noticed it all falling apart. I think there was also a perfect storm with people being glued to phones etc.

I would do a lot to re-create community, but I know from experience that you have to have boundaries. And the number of takers does seem to have increased.

it's like if you organise a community event, now people are more likely to come up to you and say "why didn't you do XYZ instead of ABC?" And I'll just say "when you're organising the event, you can organise it the way you want". It's always the people who do nothing who ask questions like that.

Support varies from person to person. I prefer to have a bash at things and see if I can manage, but am not above recognising my limits and seeking assistance. I was raised in a family where "I can't" was met with "Do your best.." - that's all anyone should expect.

I'm not talking about the 20th Century. I'm talking about the millennia that humans have evolved over. The idea of a state that would look after the vulnerable is a very modern concept.

@Dappy777 This mirrors my thoughts too. Sorry for your loss.

Next time you break a bone please do not rely on the NHS to fix it for you - They are under pressure and not enough staff to cover all the support the public needs. Please just learn to cope with it and walk it off. - This is sarcasm. I should hope that anyone who needs support will go seek it and ask for it. I sincerely hope nobody would ever be serious enough to bully people out of not asking for help. This is why I see s*icide cases on the rise each week, because people are too scared to ask for help, because of ...people like you.

Seriously, though - Are you alright? Who abused you so badly you're this angry at the world? I feel like you're projecting your own lack of support and therefore think everyone should have to suffer like you did.

Op isn’t talking about broken bones. She’s talking about the large numbers of people who seem to be overgrown children in adult’s bodies, incapable of managing their own lives or doing the most basic things to help themselves, before whining about ‘being failed’ by the services they expect to (expensively) prop them up. And the people thinking themselves up their own bottoms every day who can post relentlessly and very eloquently on here from AM to PM, but ‘can’t work due to anxiety’