What happens when everyone needs ‘support’ and no one is left to give it?

[HereBeFuckery]

Fair warning: I may well be BU.

The last five threads I have opened have contained variations on the phrase ‘I need support to/with/for’ or ‘there isn’t enough support for parents/families etc’

I genuinely feel that there is an epidemic of ‘needing support’. If everyone needs support, who is going to be left to actually give that support? It can’t be endless! If every child needs personalised support in school, and every adult needs support in the workplace, we are, surely, just marking time until everything implodes. Can no one just cope any more?

Pretty much everyone's a little bit worse off these days

Is this sufficient reason though? how people cope in e.g. Ukraine? or many other much less developed countries?
I wonder if this is our overall very high standard of living (in historical terms) made us unfit to deal with any life struggles?

I imagine that more women in the workforce full time now, means that there is less unpaid labour available to help others out.

So when everyone is stressed, and everyone has an "empty cup" then they can't help anyone else. And so on it perpetuates. Maybe ending up in a cycle of increased cynicism, burn-out and misery?

I guess trying to educate our kids to be more resilient and self-sufficient is one way to break the cycle. To balance being open about our feelings without falling into navel-gazing.

As one school said to me many moons ago, we cannot provide your child with support because we have reached our percentage limit for SEN. Obviously, special educational needs dont cease to exist because of quotas for help are overstretched, but there is a very outdated assumption that SEN needs are a very tiny percentage, rather than recognising it is a broad spectrum and alot of children will need support of varying degrees.

The assumption you are making is that SEN children cannot cope in the workplace without additional support and for some that is true, however high functioning individuals are out there in the world being highly successful, running successful businesses, creating thesis and research, amongst other things.

My thoughts are, a large proportion of parents of SEN children already sacrifice work and other commitments to ensure their child has the support they need at home, and to support their needs in terms of appointments with schools/doctors etc. These are the people that will be giving them lifelong support, potentially emotionally and financially. I imagine alot of sen people that struggle in the workplace will be self employed or run their own businesses as it may suit them better than a standard 9-5. Some may never live independently and may will be able to function in the workplace the same as anyone else.

The lack of appropriate early support results in long term difficulties.

A child with hyper mobility in fingers can't hold pensil with correct grip. Early support means correct intervention and tools (adapted pencil) adjustments etc to ensure that child developed an appropriate grip and avoids pain. Without pain child is able to write and participate in lessons more effectively

Versus

Same child but school do not recognise problem pencil grip and ignore request for support. Child develops an incorrect grip that results in substantial pain and fatigue with writing. Child gets told of for not writing enough. Child loses confidence and self esteem. Child can not keep up with peers. The only way they can write is damaging their hands, causing pain and getting them told off. This could have easily been averted with the correct support at the correct time instead the child falls further behind.

One tiny example of many showing that not supporting effectively means that problems multiply meaning more support will be required long term

Nobody is going to post that their life is fine and dandy and they don't need support, so you are getting a skewed view of people's needs from here.

Personally, I think it's going from an era of peak optimism from the end of the Cold war until the 2008 financial crash. Or even from after WW2. Expecting to out-live and out-earn your parents, generation after generation, wasn't ever sustainable. But it was nice!

Going from that, to a stagnant late stage economy with an aging population and huge associated costs. Economic growth is generally sucked up by private investment and VC before it even reaches the stock market so pension fund growth is starting to slow.

The outlook is bleak with widening inequality. If it was always this bad then I don't think people would feel it. One might have hope for a better future. But it is depressing if you are of the view that the best years are behind us.

There was a segment on the today programme this morning where they said some studies now suggest that there are more neurodivergent people than neurotypical. Make of that what you will.

But not everyone needs support do they? You're not going to get threads from people saying "I don't need any support with anything, I'm absolutely flying along!"

We now have 4.5 million kids living in poverty, with many more living just above.

Definition of a child living in poverty is about household income being below (60% ? IIRC) median.
So with society getting richer overall, there still will be household below median, no matter how well off they are.
By the same definition the poorest countries such as Sudan won't have children living in poverty, because everyone there will be roughly at the same level, despite the level itself will be so low.

To eliminate child poverty according to our definition you need communism or very close to it.

The reality is the pressure it places on public services currently is unsustainable. I am strongly encouraging my children not to go into any form of public service - the demands are ridiculous. And I’m sorry but there is also entitlement without joint responsibility. So parents saying to schools - your behaviour policy is too harsh, but said parents not putting in place basic boundaries so their child struggles with school!

A recent Deloitte survey found that over 52% of Gen Z identify as Neurodivergent. Whether they are or aren't isn't really the point. They obviously would see themselves as needing extra support and accommodations but can the remaining 48% really be expected to offer this and how?

Those flying along are expected to carry those who don’t. That’s the issue here.

ChatGPT, it seems.

Or good old self-reliance.

@Bargepole45 It’s certainly a conundrum. Perhaps at that point it flips and the neurotypical become the disadvantaged as they have to get by without support while helping those who need it?

I often think about this. My daughter moved into top group for English. In her old class, all pupils gave a presentation in front of the whole class. No exceptions and I don't think there were any complaints.
In the new set they can do their presentations in small groups as they seemingly can't cope with giving a whole class presentation.
What happened there? Did one child think they couldn't and then there was a contagion of no one being able to? Can it be possible that one class is full of neuro diverse children while the other class has none?
How will they learn they are capable of hard things?

I also think the computer automation that is supposed to help but often doesn't makes things worse. It pretends to provide 'support' but because it's not human it doesn't. It doesn't feel like 'support' and it reduces human contact and in fact creates problems.

Instead of being able to just have a quick chat to a human to make a doctors appointment now I have to fill in an online form. I've filled in 3 in the last 2 weeks. One mysteriously disappeared - I definitely submitted it. One I got a call back and a text, apparently. I was driving during the call back so couldn't take it. The text they allegedly sent I never received, and they didn't bother following up. The doctor prescribed me medicine on the basis of a photo which has been sitting in the pharmacy for a week and I never picked up (or even knew was there), no follow up on that either. For what they claim is a contagious skin condition having never seen it except via photo.

So I submitted another form today and demanded a doctors appointment as the skin condition is now worse and looks different to the (poor quality) photo from last week.

It's depressing, it's demoralising. It's not support, and it's not more efficient (as well as, potentially, spreading disease). Time was, I knew the people at the GP surgery and felt they genuinely wanted to help, now I never see them, everything is automated. I don't feel massively supported, I feel like the purpose of the form is to make me go away.

If we are talking about school, in particular, there was a lot more flex in the system when I was at school that kind of looked like the equivalent of institutional benign neglect but afforded some kids to operate with less pressure.

For one, you could take far more time off school without anybody raising an eyebrow. I had health issues which meant I could take weeks and weeks off requiring little more than a quick absence note to a form teacher on return.

Kids weren't monitored to the nth degree. You could be flying in y7 and on your arse in y11, and the school would just drop you down to the required set. There was no beasting you to bridge the gap.

So, the outcomes were probably far poorer but the process wasn't fraught with high expectations and panopticon like oversight.

Yes, it's interesting isn't it and unfortunately I think an inevitable side effect of creating an ND and NT binary system where those considered to be ND are automatically considered to be the ones with the biggest struggles and therefore worthy of the most support. As I referenced upthread life is generally hard, the vast majority of us have ND traits and other crap like trauma etc going on and it's hard for a young person in this context to accept that they are actually completely NeuroTypical and expected to accommodate and support so many of their peers. It's human nature I think for many to want to be considered ND too and be able to access the support and accommodations that will make a difficult life easier and more doable.

What will happen?
I can only tell you for myself. I'll FO back to my country, lucrative European capital city, where (hopefully) I'll have assets, inheritance
and a decent size apartment.
Otherwise, you are absolutely not being unreasonable.

I think in schools the problem is that there isn't enough resource so it is often a case of taking resource from one area (or pupil) to pay for another. And TAs in particular are paid absolute peanuts then expected to deliver the world with no thought for whether THEY need support (the support of decent pay which will provide a decent quality of life for a start).

So then you have rapid turnover often as they get burnt out / get sick / leave and so there's a lack of continuity for the children, which particularly impacts those who do need support. My Dd's secondary is advertising the same positions over and over every year.

Because staff in schools are on the frontline interacting with children daily (and it's very difficult to get appointments elsewhere, especially on a regular basis) they are expected to do thing that they're not qualified, paid or resourced to do.

Yes, this is where I am.

Support is great, the best support is through real community connections. My job is largely supporting people, I belong to community groups that support people.

But there really does seem to be this cohort, and I don't know if their numbers are increasing, or their demands, but it is like they think that every little struggle they have means someone else needs to do stuff for them, a lot seem to believe they are entitled to not have to work. They are just massively entitled.

And it doesn't seem to occur to them that what they are asking is falling on other people, in the workplace for example. Other people are covering. Even the employer is giving them money for not actually doing the job that needs to be done - and that money comes from somewhere. (This is happening in my workplace - an employee who can't do the job due to back issues. She is hanging on though, and the company that manages health insurance can't shake her off. The fact is she is unsuitable for the position and needs to go find another job- she doesn't want to and would rather continue to be paid to stay home. Totally aside from where the moey from the insurance company comes from - the person actually doin her job can't be made permanent until she is gone. He is twice her age, another ten years till retirement, diligent, and committed. And the organisation is staring down redundancies due to funding cuts.)

Like the schools seem to think they need to "support" kids completely ruining the classroom for all the other children there. The little shit, or sometimes a child for whom the classroom is an unsuitable environment, needs "support" to get an education but apparently not the kids actually ready and wanting to work, it's fine if their education is interrupted.

I have a guy in my workplace, a service user, who kind of sums it up for me. He is a guy with some real problems. So we support him and as we always do, try to be kind. But Jesus he is just completely entitled - you let him have one extra thing and next thing you know he takes it himself right off of your desk. It's like if he sees a thing is available, he asks. Because after all he needs support. (He has actually asked if he can have the stuff in an employee's personal bag before.)

It's almost like he doesn't think other people are real too, and the resources being used don't come from real people's efforts and their own struggles.

I think this is huge.

Just look at the fact that it used to be most mums didn't work FT. There was a far larger group of people in society with capacity to help those in need. Firstly they were supporting their own families, kids, ageing parents, their sister or cousin with extra needs. But also this cohort did a huge amount to support other people's children, community organisations and systems, the poor, and things like the arts which also help support people in other ways.

We've removed that capacity from society and commercialising has made it less effective, even when the state is running the programs now. An employee can never offer the kind of support that came before from friends or family.

There's often a huge lack of logic in how support is provided.

For example, near me there are two options for autistic children. Mainstream is a ratio of up to 1:30. If you're lucky a teaching assistant will be in the classroom for a short period of time in addition. The other option is an autism unit with 6 children per class plus a teacher and two teaching assistants i.e. 1:2 care. There's nothing in between so kids fall through the cracks and end up needing far more money wasted longer term when they can no longer cope with school.

Where I grew up there were three schools - mainstream, special school for complex needs and a middle option for children with conditions like autism, down syndrome, learning disabilities etc. Made much more sense.

The push for 'inclusion' in mainstream doesn't work and has caused chaos.

@Bargepole45 I totally agree with you and I say that as someone with a diagnosis of dyspraxia myself. I think we have entered a strange era when everyone seems to think there are people out there who never struggle and find life and work effortless and that life ought to be basically easy and fun. Life is bloody hard for us all and no human is a machine, we all struggle and suffer.

Great post! I would have loved your ideal school environment and when I look back I wonder how I coped in mine. But somehow I did!

People often have competing needs. I've seen siblings in the same family struggle because one needs quiet and order and the other needs to move a lot and be noisy.

In the workplace, a friend with possible nd worked with two other nd people. Both of those demanded perfection from her otherwise they would be stressed and in turn their own work had all the t's crossed and i's dotted. Her own way of working was to them too haphazard, but that was because she could and had to multitask. It was set up in a way that they had a limited amount of tasks they could do slowly and to perfection. She was the one that made sure all the work got done to a good enough standard.
She was constantly being lectured by them about how poor she was at her job and how much that stressed them out and was glad to leave. There was no support for her because her needs, to just be able to get on with her job please was not so clearly defined.