What happens when everyone needs ‘support’ and no one is left to give it?

[HereBeFuckery]

Fair warning: I may well be BU.

The last five threads I have opened have contained variations on the phrase ‘I need support to/with/for’ or ‘there isn’t enough support for parents/families etc’

I genuinely feel that there is an epidemic of ‘needing support’. If everyone needs support, who is going to be left to actually give that support? It can’t be endless! If every child needs personalised support in school, and every adult needs support in the workplace, we are, surely, just marking time until everything implodes. Can no one just cope any more?

exactly
and when they hit 30 and their peers are starting to see real benefits to their decade of hard work and slog they will feel even more left behind, offered entry level jobs and salaries, which will contribute to feelings of anger and blame - and they will just generally be stunted in life - in relationships, in independence, financially, even fun experiences and will have been fed a line most of their lives “it’s not your fault darling mummy and daddy will make that better”
it will create more of a divide in society than we have now and very cross individuals

Quite.

We go out to work, so we can afford to pay someone else, to look after the people we would otherwise cared for ourselves if we hadn't gone out to work. Especially our young or our old. But think of all that income tax we're paying!

I know it's not quite that simplistic, but at times it does feel that way.

And in the meantime we become more and more disconnected as we just don't have time to connect.

Also, in term of inequality, of course it's inevitable. My mid 20 daughter is in a graduate job. Like many, she was all over the place when she started. Anxious, full of self doubt, worried she was letting her team down, and as a result, hated the job. She didn't self analyse everything and everyone. She didn't demand adjustment to avoid doing the tasks that stressed her a lot. She didn't go off sick with stress, she didn't ask to work from home more often to avoid bur out...she git on with ut one day at a time, and of course,it got better. 18 months on, she loves her team, enjoy her job and isn't petrified at taking on new tasks. Her boss trusts her and respects her abilities. She is now being offered training for a promotion.

The kids who checked out when they faced the same hard times? Those who decided they were adhd or autistic, who demanded special adjustments, took mental health days, moaned all the time about the workload etc...they are still where they were, still moaning and now saying its unfair my daughter is getting special treatment. They seem to have no self awareness about how hard work they are to manage. So yes, it's leading to preferential treatment, but not based on the person but on merit.

There are many grandparents who refuse to help nowadays “they did their bit”, so they don’t help with grandkids, ok their choice, but might expect to be looked after in their old age. But that’s also impossible because their children need to work longer because they had to pay for so much help when their kids were young. Many grandparents forgetting they had more time and help when they brought up their kids but now “they’ve done their bit” and then they get pissed off tgey need to pay for care when they get older.

There are many takers of all ages in all walks of life.

I think people only really say they are saving the state a fortune when other people suggest that, instead of caring for their relative supported by benefits, they should get a job and pay tax but currently, in that scenario the state steps in to priovide care which costs more than the benefits, so its a saving to not work.

I understand that many people feel the state shouldnt provide care either so if you dont get benefits to care yourself, or care provided - there is no saving to be had. Its just your bad luck if your relative dies whilst you are at work but not a state issue.

I agree with PP's about giving primary school kids vocab that they shouldn't need.

My DD came home at about age 7 saying she is suffering from anxiety because she was nervous about an event at school.

She didn't have anxiety at all, and I had to sit and explain to her several times that feeling nervous is fine and a perfectly normal emotion to have. Anxiety is a very different thing.

But school had taught her any kind of nervousness is a sign of anxiety.

Why do we continue to think the world is neurotypical? I had training at work that said we are approaching 50% of people identifying as neurodiverse in one way or another. That’s means the world is actually made up of an even mix of NT and ND people.

@PullingOutHair123 Yes, being nervous is a human emotion, everyone experiences it at some point.

Also, suffering from anxiety doesn’t necessarily mean that a person can’t/shouldn’t function. I’m diagnosed with GAD, DD also suffers from anxiety and DS has had counseling as well (not diagnosed yet but probable). DD and I both take medication and she has counselling so that we can get on with life- because what’s the alternative?

Hard agree.

I agree
There is no alternative

my view seems to be increasingly outdated - there seems to be a cohort who expect a magic help fairy to materialise in these situations

and workplaces seem to be encouraging that belief and it looks as if schools have started now too

I don't get it.

I thought what OP was really asking was "what happens when society is made up of more takers than givers?" And it's an excellent question.

(I didn't think the community bit was actually part of what OP was saying, just commented as a bit of a sidebar to what someone else was saying).

Real life is, and real people are, far, far more complex than your OP allows for.

By way of my family as an example - DD1 developed really severe anorexia when she was a teenager. She was hospitalised, tube fed, 2 years of intensive therapy. All on the NHS. Hugely expensive. She also
claimed higher rate PIP for about 4 years.

During the time she was ill I was a higher rate taxpayer.

Miraculously my beloved daughter got well and entered well established recovery. She got a degree and did the PGCE. She stopped claiming PIP. She became a primary school teacher with a specialism in SEND. She was a natural teacher and a made a significant contribution to society.

Then, totally unexpectedly, my darling daughter had a seizure and died in October last year.

I have been a higher rate taxpayer most of my working life. I am now demented with shock and grief and trauma. I may never work again (I’m late 50s) and when my savings run out will look to the state to support me and mine.

I did not foresee my daughter’s earlier illness, nor her awful, premature death. I took out extensive life insurance and critical illness insurance for myself to protect the family in the event of my death or incapacity. But no amount of planning could have averted the situation we are now in.

The point of my sad story is just to highlight that society is not made up of “givers” and “takers” in a static sense. For many people the roles are fluid and dynamic.

@EmeraldRoulette do you have a child of school age? If so, what help do you see their classmates receiving? I'm curious as I think a lot of people assume there is all sorts of help out there for children with a SEN diagnosis, but unless your child has a severe disability that isn't actually the case.

The reason I was careful to say "it looks as if schools are doing the same" as I can only speak secondhand. I don't have children. Most people I know do have children.

But I chose my words carefully.

My concern with the post - which I didn't link to sorry- was specifically about children being told they have anxiety. I had terrible anxiety from about the age of eight. If school had made a big deal of it, I genuinely don't know what would have happened to me. I probably would've written myself off before I was even a teenager.

I went in and out of some pretty awful phases of anxiety - and it was anxiety rather than nerves - and I had other health problems as a teenager.

Sorry if I'm not articulating it well, but I just feel as if we are writing off young people with certain conditions, when they could actually thrive. And they might not even need special help - it might be that more self reliance is what helps them thrive.

I think being a latchkey kid was pretty good in that way. A teenager who can't make a basic meal is a matter of complete bafflement to me.

@EmeraldRoulette Going back to the OP’s example of the workplace, I think it’s also important that we teach our young adult children to realistically evaluate their strengths and weaknesses before entering the workforce. If you’re too anxious to make phone calls or give presentations, it’s surely better not to apply for positions that require these skills so that you don’t end up needing support. I’ve accepted that I can’t handle high-stress situations, for example, whereas my DH absolutely can- he’s not an anxious personality!

Everyone can contribute in different ways, we each need to play to our strengths

@BruFord yes

But as a freelancer, I have come across no less than three companies who are actively recruiting saying they can provide support and help with things that new recruits might find difficult.

So they would hire the person who can't have a flipping phone conversation. They think it makes them look like a good inclusive employer. In reality other staff members are being pressurised to help people who are not fit to do the job. And giving "help" that is way beyond any reasonable expectations.

I was asked for advice by a very senior person who had knowingly recruited someone who had difficulty with understanding nuance, for a complex project - and was dealing with the fall out of them upsetting one of her clients. It's not easy to explain this level of batshittery unless you're actually working with it.

I can see from the other posts on here, and from the emoji reaction to mine, that a lot of people are battling this problem. It's hard to explain it to somebody who hasn't come across it because it is so crazy.

The TV show "and just like that" covered it quite well with a scene with a plastic surgeon who had a receptionist who couldn't manage phone calls and couldn't bear the sight of surgical tools. This stuff really does happen! It was nice to see it covered in a TV show.

@EmeraldRoulette I see... I haven't noticed my kids' school making a big deal out of anxiety to the children. One of my son's friends has bad anxiety - simple accommodations made for him have been things like allowing him to enter by a quieter entrance and not staying overnight on camping trips if he doesn't want to. Not huge amounts of extra help. Similarly my son is on the SEN register and the extra help he gets amounts to doing maths and English in smaller groups than other children and at a more basic level.

I think the optimum situation is that someone who has been adequately supported in their hour of need , will regain enough strength in time to be able to support others, and with the benefit of lived experience. So it should even out. Everyone will have their hour for needing support, and probably for being supportive ?

@Catsandcwtches there was a post that referred to children and anxiety specifically

Sorry, I didn't link to it

Re the camping trip, I am so lucky that my generation was not pushed to go on school trips! I suspect my parents would've stepped in and just said no though.

It never does though

I've spent years giving support

I still do, and I still would - but I have massively cut back.

I think a lot of support these days involves enabling people to avoid stuff rather than empowering them to achieve their goals by working differently or compensating in other areas.

MN is a parenting advice and support forum, so most of the Talk threads are asking for advice and support 🤷

Don't click on those threads if you don't want to read them.

Stick to AIBU 😈

The awful thing about modern Britain is that it's both overcrowded and lonely. There are far too many people jammed onto this small island, and yet we're all isolated. Also, because the country is so crowded, when awful things happen, we haven't the time or space to recover.

After my father died, for example, I needed to be alone with nature. I wanted to walk in the fields and watch things grow and have a good cry. But most of the fields near me have been covered in new housing estates. One day I drove to some nearby woodland instead, but I but got stuck in traffic. When I finally arrived, I couldn't get parked and drove home in tears. Modern life is making us physically and spiritually ill. We didn't evolve to live this way.

You aren't poor enough isn't something I'll be saying to the people who come in to the Foodbank I work at.
There's something called relative poverty and so of course the poorer people in the UK are richer than those in Sudan, get a grip.

The poor pay is part of it, then people get burnt out and go on sick leave. I had to deal with social services for an elderly family member recently (dementia) and I swear the social workers were on sick leave more than they were there.

They were about as useful as a chocolate teapot in terms of doing anything practically helpful for my relative.

Edited to add: I'm not blaming them, I had another relative who was a social worker and had a nervous breakdown. However, it does mean practical support isn't there.

People will need to go back to developing some sense of resilience, I presume.