What happens when everyone needs ‘support’ and no one is left to give it?

[HereBeFuckery]

Fair warning: I may well be BU.

The last five threads I have opened have contained variations on the phrase ‘I need support to/with/for’ or ‘there isn’t enough support for parents/families etc’

I genuinely feel that there is an epidemic of ‘needing support’. If everyone needs support, who is going to be left to actually give that support? It can’t be endless! If every child needs personalised support in school, and every adult needs support in the workplace, we are, surely, just marking time until everything implodes. Can no one just cope any more?

The country doesn't have the infrastructure to keep accepting more people from overseas.
Will they build more doctors, dentists and schools to cope
Thought not.

Exactly how I interpreted your post

I can see a lot of people have interpreted it differently

The thing with Robert and Emma mutually supporting each other is it's never formal. It's not something that the workplace have encouraged or organised. It's just a natural function of teamwork. And I think teams do that best when they're left to form relationships and to get on with it.

When a workplace actually starts saying "tell us what you need help with", they get inundated with people who genuinely need help - and a bunch of chancers looking to hand off work to other people. The ones in genuine need should have had that discussion with their manager as soon as those needs became apparent.

As a freelancer, under a day rate, I have been asked if I can help members of staff to understand the action points in meetings.

If they email me and say please could you clarify a couple of points - no problem I will do that happily.

I am not prepared to sit down and painstakinglyexplain the action points to someone who might actually not be suited to the job. Otherwise, why do they need the action points explained to them in the first place?

as someone who was treated for depression and anxiety for decades, I agree that it's not a good idea to introduce these concepts to primary school children.

If I had heard about this kind of stuff at a really young age, I might have written myself off completely.

If schools/parents are bending over backwards to not allow children to feel out of their comfort zone doing presentations, reading to the class etc, how are they expected to flourish as adults? I sometimes have to do big presentations and feel really self-conscious, go red etc but the alternative is that someone else on the team would have to do more - for no more pay. That wouldn't be fair.

Exactly this. It is normal to feel very physical feelings of discomfort in our bodies. I don't think children and young adults are growing up to understand that we do things despite these feelings and they instead think people who do the things don't experience the same levels of discomfort.

I agree. There seems to be an ever growing proportion of society who are 'takers' and are very self centred and all about their own needs, often very entitled and taking little responsibility for themselves. I call them 'no fault of my own' types.

It IS a resilience issue!

I'm one of life's resilient people.
I cope because I have to, but what I can't do, is be the strong one any more. You give a little and it becomes expected.

At work, I'll drop everything to help colleagues with big life issues, deaths, births, emergency illness etc.
I absolutely will not cover babysitting issues, or anything like school plays, routine appointments etc. because people take the piss.

I have found that when I needed a little TLC it wasn't forthcoming
So now, I look after myself before others.
If that bothers anyone, that's a them problem

I think it’s like any free system, it starts off with good intentions, but over time people exploit it and the people who need it the most lose out because it’s unsustainable.

I have a work colleague (NHS) who was diagnosed as autistic as an adult and has self diagnosed with ADHD, she is very very high functioning, but openly admits she requests expensive items under the access to work scheme just because she wants them rather than needs them. I should add that she is very senior in the NHS and is quite wealthy (buys designer items, flies first class etc) so could pay for the items herself.

She uses services to skip queues despite having no issue with queues at all, asks for accommodations at exams and job interviews that she doesn’t need but wants for her convenience e.g. seeing questions ahead of time, more time to answer questions etc, her attitude is “if they will give it to me why shouldn’t I have it?”.

She justifies it because she believes it is a form of compensation she should receive for being autistic/ADHD, rather than her genuinely needing these things to function, and I believe this is the crux of the issue.

Many people have an attitude that despite them not actually needing support they should still receive it, the winter fuel allowance being a good example, with many wealthy pensioners arguing they should receive it.

It’s just not sustainable to keep providing costly support and benefits to an ever growing portion of society, many of whom don’t actually need them or can afford to support themselves.

I know this is controversial, but I personally believe all benefits and support should be means tested, if you can afford to help yourself then you should. I really don’t see why the tax payer should be paying for my colleague’s £1000 headphones while she flies first class to China.

I agree with this.

There is an epidemic of needing support. The village is broken. I am cripplingly lonely a lot of the time. Of our DCs’ 4 grandparents, 3 are dead and my DM isn’t interested. I’m an only child and my SILs live 4 hours away. I have friends with DCs but they work and have commitments. Yesterday I spent the day at a community event. We shared children, shared food, talked, grumbled, compared notes. For one day, I wasn’t lonely. I need support because my village only exists on rare days. I’m a professional with a good career, I’m capable and intelligent, but I’m also in need of support. When the village supports the village, everyone is stronger and there’s more flexibility for those who need more support to be offered it. It should ebb and flow - sometimes you give more, sometimes you take more. But modern life has eroded that. I adore my children, they’re the joy of my life, but I never imagined raising them would be so isolating.

Edited for typos.

@Twowhippetstwogingers I suppose it depends what you want to happen

I am cripplingly lonely a lot of of the time. That's why I'm on here so much! I was treated for depression and anxiety for decades. I no longer take medication (partly because I can't face dealing with the doctor) - admittedly I seem to be getting a bit better as I get older which is nice.

I never told anyone at work because it was something to be ashamed of back then - and I think that did me a lot of favours actually because I had to just get on with it rather than lose my job.

I do believe in providing support in the village, but unfortunately people take the piss. I can see now that no one wants to support me if I'm lonely or low or struggling with basic household tasks. it's often perceived that I am very lucky because I don't have kids to look after, but I do have an elderly mother to look after.

The last person I tried to help out, she broke her shoulder and while I was round there helping her to put lunch together, she said to me "I really appreciate this, but the thing I really need help with is walking the dogs". I draw the line there. And so did the other neighbours - so she just had to pay for a dog walker. It is too much to ask I think.

A lot of us are prepared to participate in the village but we do have to draw a line.

in terms of being lonely, I'm really disappointed that my actual friends didn't want to do anything about that - but we can't really expect strangers to do it.

I have now got a local group that I can socialise with but it feels incredibly empty - pretty sure these people would run a mile if I actually needed help. I can't be sure. But I've had enough experience of asking for help to know that most people won't. And I don't blame them for that.

I do kind of blame the former friends who know that I won't take the piss - but the past is in the past and I have to stop thinking about it now. I suppose I don't know what they're dealing with either.

I sound old, but in the old days we would've told each other what we were dealing with and tried to help out! Now people are annoyed if you even phone them.

I agree with you. I often hear of people that are unfortunately struggling and say that they need more support but who is going to provide it? Support jobs are often unpleasant and badly paid. And that's without going into abuse from those who work in these positions.

Agree completely.

I’ve said for a while now our biggest threat is the sheer number of people that will not be working and ‘need support’ in about 15 years.

She justifies it because she believes it is a form of compensation she should receive for being autistic/ADHD, rather than her genuinely needing these things to function, and I believe this is the crux of the issue.

This is another view I do see on here a lot. I remember a thread about RAP at Disney Florida ages ago. And it was mentioned that people in wheelchairs/mobility scooters no longer qualified for RAP for some rides as the queues were now fully accessible for wheelchairs etc. People were saying that because life is hard enough for those in a wheelchair etc they should still be allowed the RAP to make up for the rest of life being crap. Now I’m not denying that life can be shit at times for those in wheelchairs. But my point is that if a ride has made adjustments to be accessible, why is not that accepted as enough? Surely then the RAP queues can be shorter for those who cannot queue at all.

Like the strange view that caring for your own family is ‘saving the state a fortune’. Of course caring for disabled family is difficult and needs support but it’s not ‘saving the state a fortune’.

I’ve been an Emma. In this case, the employer shits itself when Emma moves to another team, resigns or even takes a long holiday. I’ve come back to whinging because no one else did the stuff while I was away. It got to the point where I would ask Robert to speak with XYZ senior person and have XYZ get shirty because I had sent him and XYZ was too senior to have to interact with people who weren’t “on it”. I think I said something like why do we have people who can’t come and speak to you? I can’t do everything.

I think the point is that if the family member didn't do it then the state would have to and it would cost much more than carers allowance.

I'm happy to be the one to care for my disabled child but that does mean I'm then unable to work as a result of that.

I mean any parent could refuse to care for their child and therefore the state would have to. If you’re unable to work then you’re unable to work, I have read some of your posts before and you’re absolutely the kind of person who deserves that support. But I don’t see caring for one’s own children as ‘saving the state a fortune’.

Communities used to be comprised of people who knew each other and would support each other as life happened, now people are less connected

When I was growing up, a lot of mums didn't work or worked part time and did a lot caring for the elderly-getting their shopping, taking them to appointments etc

Now, most houses need two people working full time to pay the mortgage and they spend the weekends catching up on housework so don't have time to be unpaid helpers for local old people.

Yes, it's an interesting insight on who they think is ultimately responsible for their loved ones. The State or them as the family unit. I think an expectation that the State will care for the most vulnerable is always precarious. It's just not how we have evolved as a species where largely those closest to the vulnerable person would be care for them. This makes a lot of sense as they would have more skin in the game and ultimately be more emotionally invested in their wellbeing. Even the most compassionate person will feel more for their own friends and family than strangers and therefore do more to protect their wellbeing.

The state has no inalienable duty to look after the vulnerable. What has been put in place can be rolled back if larger society decides the burden is too much. This is why we need to be very careful about limiting the burden as much as we can and accepting responsibility for ourselves and our loved ones where we can.

I do think it is mostly said out of frustration. Especially on threads where even carers of disabled children are sometimes made out to be lazy because they aren't working and claim benefits.

On a recent thread someone even asked if a parent of a disabled child can't just pay for a carer so they can work and not claim benefits.

A different previous thread, the suggestion to me was just moving to a cheaper area in the most basic house so I then apparently wouldn't need to claim benefits.

Exactly! It will be better when DD starts school and I can go back to working outside the home. ATM I’m self-employed and WFH, as it’s what works best around a 4 year old.

@BitterTits It worries me too. I know a number of mid-late 20’s young adults who need so much support, and it’s difficult to see how they’re ever going to get out of this cycle. Meanwhile, their parents are getting older and at some point, they won’t be able to provide this level of financial/emotional support anymore.

And a lot of people died before dementia really kicked in, but now advancement in medicine for physical issues have advanced but brain medicine is still developing.

So in the olden days a lot of help for the elderly at home was for much shorter periods of time, not a decade or two of slow decline. Regardless of who was at work or not (people also got state pension earlier).

Like the strange view that caring for your own family is ‘saving the state a fortune’
That really gets to me too. And people do really believe that mindset. The default is others' responsibility. Theirs only come in as mean of compensation. Life is shit for many. Our responsibility is to minimise the risks of ending up with a shit life and then doing our best to cope with it and trying to make it better. It is not for 'others' to magically kiss it better.

The new thing that really gets me is the reference to burn out. 'I can't do that I thing I don't want to do because if I do, then I'll burn out and of course, it will be your fault'. And burnout is a phenomenon that only affect those with a diagnosis or label. Everyone else have to do the chores because they are somehow pppexprcted to never burn out because...they don't have a diagnosis...

A generation or 2 ago there was something called 'community' and 'extended family'. Grandparents used to look after children while parents went to work. You knew your neighbours and could use their help from time to time. There was a network of cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. Now there are so many struggling single mums. People go no contact with their parents and other relatives. Friendships die out. You remember people used to go to church every Sunday and make friends there? Churches have shut down because people stopped going and in my town they are being replaced by mosques. All the work and support the community used to give, now has been pushed on to the government and it's like people are expecting the state to provide help now in all spheres of life and are suffering in silence, getting mentally ill. I think we are in a pandemic of loneliness.