Page 15 | What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

JMSA · 2026-02-03T22:36:55+00:00

I don’t know, I guess it just saddens me that she holds this negative view of the world already. I received this text from her tonight: *I feel so enraged by the Epstein files. It is like documented proof men are evil. This is what men will do when they have power and think they will get away with it because that’s their nature. The poor woman and kids, it’s sick.* I’m fed up of saying ‘it’s not all men’. She really hasn’t known many nice teenage boys. I daresay social media has heavily coloured her view too. I don’t want to dismiss her feelings but don’t want to encourage the notion that all men are evil!

windowcasement · 04/02/2026 11:44

Lobelia123 · 04/02/2026 10:38

I would say, for every bad man there is a good man.

Donald Trump - Barack Obama
Jeffrey Epstein - Keanu Reeves
Osama Bin Laden - The Dalai Lama

If you seek evil you will find it. If you look for good, people will surprise you. dont let her lose that beautiful optimism thats inherent in youth....the world needs hope and belief that things can be better xx

Tibetan Buddhists’ spiritual leader tells BBC that a female Dalai Lama would have to be ‘very, very, attractive’ or be ‘not much use’:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/24/dalai-lama-sexist-quip-ruffles-equality-activists

Dalai Lama's 'sexist' quip ruffles equality activists

Tibetan Buddhists’ spiritual leader tells BBC that a female Dalai Lama would have to be ‘very, very, attractive’ or be ‘not much use’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/24/dalai-lama-sexist-quip-ruffles-equality-activists

CautiousLurker2 · 04/02/2026 11:46

5128gap · 04/02/2026 10:24

I wouldn't feel too sad for your husband, DS and FiL. For every woman who 'hates men' there are scores of others who will defend, protect, pander and fawn over them. Men are still far more loved, exhalted, praised and cared for by women, often to the detriment and self sacrifice of the woman herself than they are hated.
The occasional woman may decide to avoid them, but its vanishingly unlikely that will translate to any harm being done to them. Your husband may have to meet with his female colleagues with the door open, but if thats the most thats asked of him to make a woman feel safe and protect his reputation, its not that onerous compared to the modifications women make to our lives to be safe.
Your son may meet a woman like the OPs DD who might refuse to befriend or date him, but realistically he need not fear she will abuse him in the street, follow him home, rape or assault him in her hatred.
Because 'misandry' is toothless. Women may feel it, talk about it, but they don't tend to act on it in a way that harms men.

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Hating men fuels the divide, rather than builds bridges or mutual respect.

Not hating all men does not automatically make one a panderer. Some of us chose to work with our DHs to ensure that our DS’s are raised to be respectful and considerate of the women in their lives. Some of us have DHs who champion women in the workplace, actively seeking to support and train women returning after career breaks, for example.

But feel free to disparage both my DH and myself. I’m an ardent feminist. That does not mean I hate men. Misandry is NOT the antidote to misogyny. In fact the former fuels the latter.

But I see, finally, that MN is not a space for rational discussion and one which seems to celebrate and feed misandry. On that basis I am well and truly out.

bigboykitty · 04/02/2026 11:49

I see some of the most disgusting posts have now been deleted. It's time to block the accounts of these men who rock up and regularly post sexist hate on threads about women's rights and safety @MNHQ . If you're not sure who they are, there are plenty of posters on this thread who can help you with the list.

5128gap · 04/02/2026 11:50

Chiseltip · 04/02/2026 10:33

Imagine a man posting what you just did about a woman . . .

Absolutely vile.

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What's 'vile' about it? Genuinely curious as to what in that post motivated such a dramatic and hyperbolic response? This isn't a man who is a victim, who has been harmed in any way. Its a man who has the minor inconvenience of leaving the door open when in a meeting with a colleague. The poster is being sarcastic about the idea we should feel pity for him. Genuinely, what is wrong with that?

DaisyMayBojangles · 04/02/2026 11:56

MovingOn26 · 04/02/2026 08:31

There was me thinking that older generations shared in my discomfort at the madly divisive culture-wars gender politics among the young, and the constant devaluing of men and masculinity in our culture (to the extent that many men prefer to become women than live in their own bodies) but I see now that it is the older generations who are teaching the young to think in these ways.

OP: "I worry about my daughter having such a negative view of men."
80 per cent of responses: "she is right, good for her, double down on the hatred and fear of men,."

I am a mother of two sons and they - and all their friends - are kind, generous, open-hearted souls who are walking around in this world unaware of the depth of hatred being stirred up against their sex on this thread, on this site, and elsewhere. They will come to see it soon and will simply avoid interaction. Birth rates are plummeting, young people's mental health is declining due to isolation. The answer is not to teach them to hate and fear one another.

As for Epstein, perhaps the lesson should be that the rich and powerful require more democratic oversight. Don't forget that Ghislaine Maxwell (from an incredibly wealthy and powerful family) and Sarah Ferguson (who traded on her royal connections) have also been deeply implicated. People with power are easily corrupted and it is up to the rest of us to restrain and regulate their power so that they can't do so much damage - not take the lesson as being that we must teach our daughters to hate men (or reinforce their own burgeoning hatreds). Hate and fear are never the answer and never ever make any situation better. I hope that all those involved in abusing those girls are brought to justice and the rest of men can go about their business as they were, innocent until proven guilty. Have a good day, all.

Edited

Blame your sons own shitty gender for the feelings of anger and disgust women have towards the male species.
Rather than trying to blame women for being ‘unreasonable’ to be cautious, maybe men should be calling each other’s shitty behaviour out and getting angry with the ones that sully their gender as a whole.
i have a 15 year old son and whilst I love him endlessly, I am under no illusion that just because he’s my son he doesn’t have the potential to be another shitty male. His father and I are making it our priority to raise him to understand respect and consent because I don’t want to send another shitty male out into the world.

ErlingHaalandsManBun · 04/02/2026 11:56

Does she have any positive male role models in her life?

My DD was very much like this when she was 18. She had a few boyfriends who, in her own words were 'lying, controlling, twats' and I think with all the things happening in the world it made her start to hate men.

I personally don't think its bad to say that its not all men, because that is a fact. Its NOT all men. There are many wonderful and amazing men in the world so a reminder that there are some decent men out there I don't think is too bad a thing. And a healthy debate on her thoughts and opinions is fine, where you listen to her thoughts and feelings and why she has come to this conclusion and challenge them a little with your own without pushing yours onto her and ultimately not stifle what she thinks and feels.

With my DD I allowed her to express her opinions and feel what she felt and make her own mind up on things. She still feels very strongly that men are the root of all evil in general and that much of the worlds issues and problems are because of men but she is now not so 'one size fits all' when it comes to this. Her opinions and thoughts have softened a little as she grows older and learns more. She has stopped saying she hates men but is still very wary of all their faults and has a pretty low opinion of them in general.

She met a guy last year who has been amazing. Treats her well, is kind and loving and is her best friend. So she has found out for herself now that there are good men in the world. But I think part of her still expects him to let her down or hurt her in some way. And she also has a Dad who is the most amazing male role model for her which has helped her views.

SnoopyPajamas · 04/02/2026 11:58

I mean . . . if there's not a single man in your lives you can point to to prove to her that not all men are like that . . .

OtterlyAstounding · 04/02/2026 11:58

CautiousLurker2 · 04/02/2026 11:46

Hating men fuels the divide, rather than builds bridges or mutual respect.

Not hating all men does not automatically make one a panderer. Some of us chose to work with our DHs to ensure that our DS’s are raised to be respectful and considerate of the women in their lives. Some of us have DHs who champion women in the workplace, actively seeking to support and train women returning after career breaks, for example.

But feel free to disparage both my DH and myself. I’m an ardent feminist. That does not mean I hate men. Misandry is NOT the antidote to misogyny. In fact the former fuels the latter.

But I see, finally, that MN is not a space for rational discussion and one which seems to celebrate and feed misandry. On that basis I am well and truly out.

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Misandry is NOT the antidote to misogyny. In fact the former fuels the latter.

Are you seriously trying to say that women 'hating' men (which generally means simply being wary of them, and distrusting them) as a demographic for the heinous things they do to women and children, is why men do those heinous things to women and children?

That seems a bit backwards to me, but I admire the acrobatics you're trying to do to make misogyny women's fault.

(I also have a lovely DH, and a DS who seems to be turning out well - and neither of them have an issue with the fact that women are disillusioned with men as a demographic.)

SerendipityJane · 04/02/2026 11:58

Personally I'd be a misanthrope rather than a misandrist. Your DD is halfway there.

(I appreciate that may just be me.)

ZookeeperSE · 04/02/2026 11:59

Chiseltip · 04/02/2026 10:33

Imagine a man posting what you just did about a woman . . .

Absolutely vile.

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Imagine a man etc etc???

Do you not spend a lot of time on the internet, or something?

5128gap · 04/02/2026 11:59

CautiousLurker2 · 04/02/2026 11:46

Hating men fuels the divide, rather than builds bridges or mutual respect.

Not hating all men does not automatically make one a panderer. Some of us chose to work with our DHs to ensure that our DS’s are raised to be respectful and considerate of the women in their lives. Some of us have DHs who champion women in the workplace, actively seeking to support and train women returning after career breaks, for example.

But feel free to disparage both my DH and myself. I’m an ardent feminist. That does not mean I hate men. Misandry is NOT the antidote to misogyny. In fact the former fuels the latter.

But I see, finally, that MN is not a space for rational discussion and one which seems to celebrate and feed misandry. On that basis I am well and truly out.

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Please point out to me where I have disparaged either you or your husband? Because I'm more than happy to engage with you about things I have said, but not to have you make things up and attribute them to me and then suggest this is evidence of lack of rationality. That's disingenuous and unfair.
I didn't say that every women who doesn't hate men is a panderer. I merely pointed out that there are far more women who pander than hate, so your men are more likely to encounter women who praise and elevate, support, flatter and uplift them than hate them.

ZookeeperSE · 04/02/2026 12:02

CautiousLurker2 · 04/02/2026 11:46

Hating men fuels the divide, rather than builds bridges or mutual respect.

Not hating all men does not automatically make one a panderer. Some of us chose to work with our DHs to ensure that our DS’s are raised to be respectful and considerate of the women in their lives. Some of us have DHs who champion women in the workplace, actively seeking to support and train women returning after career breaks, for example.

But feel free to disparage both my DH and myself. I’m an ardent feminist. That does not mean I hate men. Misandry is NOT the antidote to misogyny. In fact the former fuels the latter.

But I see, finally, that MN is not a space for rational discussion and one which seems to celebrate and feed misandry. On that basis I am well and truly out.

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Misandry is NOT the antidote to misogyny. In fact the former fuels the latter

Well done you, that is literally the first Rule of Misogyny,
'Women are responsible for what men do'.

Itiswhysofew · 04/02/2026 12:09

I pretty much thought the same at her age & still do. It's good that she's conscious of the fact that men can do a lot of damage to women. Maybe she'll find a good'n, but being cautious is not such a bad thing.

pencilcaseandcabbage · 04/02/2026 12:12

I don't think there's anything wrong with what your daughter wrote. My husband will sometimes read a news article, come and give me a hug and then say something like "Men are just horrible". Then he'll tell me about the article. He knows it isn't all men, because it isn't him and it isn't his (admittedly few) friends but it's enough.

And sometimes people just want to vent to someone safe.

purpleseal · 04/02/2026 12:17

I have had good experiences with men in my life in my father, brother and I am not very happily married for over 25 years to a man I believe is good and trustworthy. However even with that experience I am still somewhat cynical about men in general. I don't think the odds are great for women when it comes to men.

When I look at a lot of the men I have known or even classed as good friends over the years or the men in my wider family and the partners of female friends there is a lot of shitty, selfish behaviour. Lots of them seem to suffer from some kind of addiction issue gaming, porn, gambling, alcohol, occasionally drugs. Lots feel entitled to spend huge amounts of their time and family money on expensive hobbies and leave their wives who work full time with pretty much all the work of running a home and child rearing and if they can't get what they want they sulk or just checkout of family life which is what they were doing anyway. One friends husband who thought he was oh so clever lost all their money for a house deposit trying to get rich on the stock market and as a result they still live in a rented flat in their early 50's. This is not even to mention cheating and domestic violence that has happened.

I don't know it isn't all men but its a lot of men who seem to see women less than human. Look at all the local men who were happy to rape a drugged Gisèle Pelicot? Look at the ex-tory councillor who repeatedly drugged and raped his wife? Even the much lauded and supposedly unimpeachable Noam Chomsky has shown his true colours in supporting Epstein a convicted sex offender against a minor. Chomsky also noted how hard it was for Epstein to recover his public image due to “the hysteria that has developed about abuse of women". Oh the poor men if only women would just shut up and put up.

I think its a good thing that your daughter has her eyes open about men it perhaps means she will more likely be aware of what to look out for and what to avoid. It also will hopefully mean that she will be able to realise her own full potential without worrying what some guy wants her to be.

Balloonhearts · 04/02/2026 12:26

Have her join mumsnet. Part of the crew, part of the ship. 😆

Frugalgal · 04/02/2026 12:27

purpleseal · 04/02/2026 12:17

I have had good experiences with men in my life in my father, brother and I am not very happily married for over 25 years to a man I believe is good and trustworthy. However even with that experience I am still somewhat cynical about men in general. I don't think the odds are great for women when it comes to men.

When I look at a lot of the men I have known or even classed as good friends over the years or the men in my wider family and the partners of female friends there is a lot of shitty, selfish behaviour. Lots of them seem to suffer from some kind of addiction issue gaming, porn, gambling, alcohol, occasionally drugs. Lots feel entitled to spend huge amounts of their time and family money on expensive hobbies and leave their wives who work full time with pretty much all the work of running a home and child rearing and if they can't get what they want they sulk or just checkout of family life which is what they were doing anyway. One friends husband who thought he was oh so clever lost all their money for a house deposit trying to get rich on the stock market and as a result they still live in a rented flat in their early 50's. This is not even to mention cheating and domestic violence that has happened.

I don't know it isn't all men but its a lot of men who seem to see women less than human. Look at all the local men who were happy to rape a drugged Gisèle Pelicot? Look at the ex-tory councillor who repeatedly drugged and raped his wife? Even the much lauded and supposedly unimpeachable Noam Chomsky has shown his true colours in supporting Epstein a convicted sex offender against a minor. Chomsky also noted how hard it was for Epstein to recover his public image due to “the hysteria that has developed about abuse of women". Oh the poor men if only women would just shut up and put up.

I think its a good thing that your daughter has her eyes open about men it perhaps means she will more likely be aware of what to look out for and what to avoid. It also will hopefully mean that she will be able to realise her own full potential without worrying what some guy wants her to be.

Spot on!!

I remember once reading some nothing a man had written saying if women really understood how much men hate them they'd be horrified..

ParmaVioletTea · 04/02/2026 12:52

Balloonhearts · 04/02/2026 12:26

Have her join mumsnet. Part of the crew, part of the ship. 😆

Yessss!

Bigcat25 · 04/02/2026 12:55

Happyjoe · 04/02/2026 00:28

If only it was just the filthy rich ones then we could at least avoid them.

They're from all walks of life. The real common denominator is they're men.

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Yes abusers come from all walks of life. But the ultra rich committing crimes and protecting each other is a problem. As is a personality type that is extremely driven and selfish for money, being worth a fortune but not wanting to pay staff a living wage despite them bending over backwards for their employer. I read examples of this every day that have nothing to do with sex crimes.

Andrew Lownie spoke of the rich being the tougest negotiators and greediest at his agency, and people like PM being worth many millions and not wanting to pay for a course for his spouse. It's a type that will overlook or participate in crimes bc they are selfish.

ParmaVioletTea · 04/02/2026 12:56

JMSA · 03/02/2026 22:56

A decent dad who is hardworking and loving. But who cheated on me and caused the breakdown of our family.

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Well, there you have part of the puzzle.

MovingOn26 · 04/02/2026 12:58

KatsPJs · 04/02/2026 08:40

What are you going to do about it? Let me clarify just so it’s clear: you do not know that any of the men in your company are not already abusing women. None of us know that - that’s the point. It’s not spite and bitterness, it’s reality and factually correct. I’m sure all the women whose partners raped Pelicot for years also thought they were upstanding citizens.

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I can do nothing but defend them and pity you.

I DO know that they are not abusing women and I also know they never will. It is about good character, about understanding how to cultivate it, and how to recognise it in others.

I am sorry that life has treated you so badly that you are so full of hate you have to impugn the character of strangers on the internet, but there really is nothing I can do about that.

It seems that Mumsnet is full of man-haters so, like a few others on this thread, I will be bowing out now. Lesson learned.

GreyCarpet · 04/02/2026 12:58

anonymous0810 · 04/02/2026 07:45

Does nobody here have sons? If you do, do you really think that your son is the exception or do you hate them as much as you hate other men? All the sons of people on this thread can’t possibly be the exceptions. It’s fascinating and depressing.

I have a son. He's 27.

I don't hate him but I brought him up so he's the sort of man I think men ae capable of being. And he's managed it very well.

So maybe its just that we have raised our sons to be the exceptions... 👍

UnemployedNotRetired · 04/02/2026 13:00

I try to be fair minded and go on the evidence.
So basically I just hate everyone ... until experience proves me wrong one person at a time.

Changingforthisone1 · 04/02/2026 13:00

Does some sort of klaxon go out on 4Chan and Reddit when there's posts like this?

Esmereldapawpatrol · 04/02/2026 13:03

She's not wrong though is she. I am in my 40s and I feel so enraged by ALL of it! Yes it's not all men but if you look at the statistics of women killed by their partners or men they know are frightening and those saying tell her about female murderers, yes of course they are out there but in nowhere near the numbers of men. Men are the biggest threat to a woman's life and that's the truth!

When we were younger this shit was going on and we didn't know any better or how to speak up and deal with it. I would need more than two hands to count all the inappropriate sexual behaviour I have had to deal with. I would much rather my DD (who is only 11) had an awareness and knew what to look out for, far better to be cautious than murdered by some entitled prick that thinks she owes him the world.

My DD has a wonderful father, and many other positive male role models so she knows there are good ones out there but I will be making her well are there are plenty of awful ones too.

I have a 13 year old DS as well and the current climate makes it hard for teenage boys to know how they are supposed to be as they have such mixed messaging, be sensitive but be strong etc etc so again he has plenty of positive behaviours to show him how to treat others. Society just has to do better!